Theory: how and why we became low on Dopamine and GABA and potencial fix

General Discussion
#1

This theory does not exclude the Pan hypopituitaty theory. Some of us (or most of us… ?) may be experiencing both problems at the same time.

How Propecia affected our neurotransmitters, in steps (simplified):

  1. Finasteride blocked 5 ar activity.
  2. The amount of Progesterone converted in Allopregnanolone by 5 ar, reduced substancially.
  3. Less allopregnanolone resulted in less Gaba, as the first stimulates the second.
  4. Less Gaba resulted in more stress, fear, negative feelings and so on.
  5. This state led to a decrease in other neurotransmitters, Dopamine, Serotonin and Acetylcoline.
  6. The acute decrease of neurotransmitters means DEPRESSION or a state close to depression. DEPENDING on your genetic background, this state can lead to melancoly, depression, severe depression, paranoia, brain fog, schizofrenia, dementia, seizures, panic attacks, anger bursts, impulsive behavior, impatience.

So, suppose our 5 ar enzimes are still unactive or they have healed only partially. This means we are still not producing the regular amout of Allopregnanolone. Some neurotransmitters will recover easier than others like serotonin and acetylcoline. But high levels of GABA and Dopamine are CLOSELY related to high levels of Allopregnanolone.

This study suggests that Allopregnanolone increases dopamine release and dopamine response. So, if we are low on allopregnanolone, we are low on dopamine as well, not only GABA:

ingentaconnect.com/content/b … .alexandra

So, being low on dopamine, we get a minor feeling of reward from any experience. That minor feeling of reward will realease a smaller amount of Serotonin. A smaller amount of serotonin will stimulate less Gaba. And so on… Now multiply this times thousands of experiences we have in a day… Of course we feel life has become a dimmed light.

Now, a potencial fix: Neurotransmitters work together and in a cascade effect. When you raise dopamine you raise other neurotransmitters with it (including GABA). But here is the catch: if you chose to raise Serotonin alone (with SSRI’s), it will lower your dopamine levels. The cascade effect of Serotonin will raise Gaba but not dopamine. That s why many men experience many sexual side effects from SSRIs.

So, in my opinion if we are able to increase dopamine alone, we will in consequence increase GABA, reversing the effects of having low allopregnanolone. It is like skipping the base of the pyramid (allopregnanolone). We need to rebuild the top of the pyramid in order to get better mentally. But this top will fall again if we stop the supplementation and the base of the pyramid isn’t recovered (allopregnanolone levels). So it needs to be more like a supplementation… not a time framed treatment.

I already tried to increase GABA, as i used valium for 6 moths right after i quit Finasteride. It helped a lot with stress (calming sensation, feeling of security) but not with dopamine, as Valium is a depressor of the Central Nervous System.
The problem with antidepressants like Wellbutrin is that it also stimulates Noradrenaline (besides dopamine). Noradrenaline makes you agitated erasing any benefit raised Gaba would give you. So, i think we need to find a safe and dependable way of increasing dopamine alone. The cascade effect will increase Gaba. We will be mentally sharper and calmer at the same time if we achieve this.

#2

I had the first answer from my father’s friend ,he’s a researcher and knows all the fina’s sideeffects…
he said that moving hormones by fina can “damage” Neurotransmitters and makes theese kind of feeling (brain fog etc…) .he also said that sex is alterated by an hormonal problem and by a neurologic problem caused by fina…

he’ll post me to let me know what to do but he says it is reversible and with not so much time…I really hope he’s right !

#3

I agree with this EXCEPT, I do not feel that the problem is decreased serotonin. I feel it definitely decreased dopamine and noradrenaline, but that it increased serotonin quite a bit, which is the main factor for our dysfunction. I think why it hits only a small percentage of guys is because maybe we had some chemical imbalances in our brain (pre-Finasteride treatment) that was greatly exacerbated. Of course, this is impossible to test, as I can’t think of ANY way to test for serotonin levels in the brain that doesn’t involve a very invasive technique.

I say this because when one has an increase in serotonin in the brain, sexual dysfunction is VERY common. This is why SSRI’s are notorious as the sexual dysfunction drugs. Also, this explains why Cyproheptadine, even on people without high levels of serotonin, can increase orgasm potency and relieve SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction.

I’m going to test out these theories as soon as I get a break (school is rather rough right now), so we shall see!

Awesome start though.

#4

Right–I find two approaches to this. Decrease serotonin by taking a 5-HTA2 antagonist like Cyproheptadine. This decreases serotonin dramatically, which will cause dopamine and noradrenaline (another sex hormone) to be more pronounced.

Another way to JUST increase dopamine are with the drugs Cabergoline (decreases prolactin [the refractory period hormone] and consequently increases dopamine), Amantadine (an anti-viral that when in low doses [low-dose amantadine treatment] has been known to reverse anorgasmia), and the drugs Pramipexole and Ropinirole . These ALL work by affecting Dopamine directly, and from what I’ve heard, Cabergoline is GREAT as it doesn’t affect anxiety levels. This is the main factor that caused me to stop Wellbutrin treatment (raised my anxiety ten fold).

Don’t let your doc prescribe ANY serotonin raising drugs–a drug like Fluoxetine (prozac) has about a 55% of causing sexual dysfunction, which works by increasing serotonin. Also, Buspar (which some psychs view as good because it [supposedly] is an anti-anxiety and “cures” sexual dysfunction) is a crappy drug and I DO NOT ADVISE IT. Increased sexual dysfunction.

Hope this helps.

#5

Thanks guys, i think we are moving in the right direction.
Italysideeffects, keep us posted if your friend has an idea on how to fix this.
Yaeatchickensowhat, i am not familiar with Cyproheptadine, i’ll do a research about it. But as a first thought, i don’t think it would be a good a idea (for me) to lower serotonin. I feel i need to increase all neurotransmitters, but the main has to be dopamine. Also, i feel it could be a supply problem: progesterone --> 5 ar conversion to allopregnanolone --> GABA and Dopamine. If 5 ar activity doens t heal, we will always end up low on Gaba and Dopamine.