Try a low dose of Arimidex… like 0.25 mg on the day you inject. I assume you don’t have any morning erections. Try to recover them. You should feel a lot better then, as it indicates that your testosterone/estrogen ratio is optimal.
What was the improvement? I felt great, and it recovered my sexual function within a week, after using 25 mg a day. This was while I was using Propecia. Andractim (which I experimented with before Proviron) didn’t do much for me, besides taking care of gynecomastia.
nowadays i am having too much spontaneus erections, i think TRT is a cure.
my beard growth speed increased, water retention went away,
what is your opinion on beard growth & TRT?
It definitely increases the rate of the beard growth, and body hair in general. I’ve got a lot more hair on my body after I began TRT.
what is your TRT programme?
i can only find NEBIDO(TU)i.m. in my country legally
50 mg Primoteston Depot twice a week. Nebido is a lot better, but should be used once a week, or every two weeks - NOT like Bayer is marketing the drug! This means that you would have to transfer the content of an ampule to a 5 ml vial - similar to what I’m doing with the Primoteston Depot ampules. I’m using 2.5 mg Cialis a day in addition, and I’ve been experimenting with other drugs to manage estrogen, like Proviron, Arimidex and a progesterone cream. I’m currently using progesterone.
when you say worse , what exactly you mean? could you elaborate?
At the time, when I was taking Proviron, my most threatening immediate problem was an unbelievable strong burning sensation in the nipple/chest area. The closest I can describe this with was like pouring acid onto an open wound. Proviron initially helped alleviate this, but I had to take increasingly higher doses to keep getting some kind of effect. In the end, I was popping a 25mg tablet every 1-2 hours! But gradually, the effect weened away, and taking proviron just made everything worse (pain, mental, muscle cramps, weakness, sexual side effects, depression, etc…). After quitting it, I started feeling a little better again.
As I said many times before, I am an extreme case. It might be that some people could benefit a little. In any case, PLEASE post your results with Proviron in this thread, as we are trying to consolidate an overview of androgen supplementation treatments in a central place: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3250
Thanks.
Awor
(1)Testosterone down-regulates the levels of androgen receptor mRNA in smooth muscle cells from the rat corpora cavernosa via aromatization to estrogens.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8499343
(2)Up-regulation of the levels of androgen receptor and its mRNA by androgens in smooth-muscle cells from rat penis.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8495802
To summarize the first study, (1) indicates that AR could become downregulated even before stopping fin and suffering the PFS “crash”. While these studies should be taken with a grain of salt because they are focused on rat penises, rats in (1) experienced a downregulation of AR expression due to increased estrogen levels caused by fin administration (fin blocked T conversion to DHT, therefore excess T aromatizes). However, counter to the researchers’ hypothesis in the second study, (2), that increased androgen levels would downregulate AR, DHT increased AR expression after androgen deprivation. To me, these two studies indicate that there are 3 possible mechanisms by which AR expression changes due to fin use, with any combination of the 3 being the actual cause:
- Increased estrogens while on fin
- Decreased DHT while on fin
- Extreme DHT surge upon cessation of fin (vs. a moderate increase in DHT which can upregulate AR expression and not suppress the HPTA)
Why would some benefit from proviron and not others? Is it possible that those who do not respond to TRT, proviron, or androgen supplementation at all have the highest rate of AR downregulation? Supplementation with carnitine has been shown to lower circulating free testosterone levels because carnitine increases the uptake of the free testosterone. If due to decreased AR expression, a person can’t absorb high levels of artificially circulating androgens, then his body would possibly respond by shutting down endogenous production (i.e. ingest proviron —> body senses way too much DHT —> shuts down T production —> bodily process dependent on T, but not DHT suffer). So, the trick would be taking in the amount of proviron/DHT that is suitable for one’s current level of AR downregulation, then slowly increasing proviron/DHT intake to match increases in AR expression. Would this be incredibly hard to do? Absolutely. Is it impossible to do? Maybe not.
The practical problem would be the need for consistent measurement of circulating androgens. As AR expression increased, circulating androgen levels would decrease due to greater uptake by the body. When circulating levels have decreased, one would increase proviron/DHT uptake to further increase AR expression, repeating this process until stable.
LH and FSH would need to be measured in order to ensure that the decrease in circulating androgens is due to increased AR expression and not negative HPTA feedback. If LH and FSH increase or stay the same, and circulating levels of T and DHT decrease, then increased AR expression can be assumed (good). If T and DHT decrease, but LH and FSH also decrease, then negative feedback is occurring and endogenous production is shutting down (bad). Is it possible, that using this methodology, a person could selectively modify AR gene expression without risking body-wide demethylization? I believe so, but I’m not a scientist or medical professional, so please do not take anything I’ve said as medical (or even sound) advice.
Please let me know if this idea makes sense and/or should be in an individual thread.
Take care,
Former
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any more experience?
i gave up all med’s again. nowi am only on T4 all my depression has gone, everyday morning stable erections. nowadays i am thinking that propecia’s parmenent effect has gone.
i feel much horny than on Testogel proviron or other BS.
try to avoid taking meds. sounds silly but focus on “making much more sex” idea.
try to get horny. stop taking any meds for 2-3 years.
bad news: penile shrinkage is permanent
IHP was able to reverse penile shrinkage. You should be able to too. Maybe the t4 is not fixing all the problems going on.
wtfisIHP??
IHP = Ihatepropecia702
He’s a poster here, do a search for his username.
My penis grew after rubbing large amounts of Andractim on it for a couple of weeks or so. The girth increased significantly. Keep in mind that doing so may suppress your testosterone production.
you are the first one who reports positive effects by directly apply DHT on his penis. Most here say their penis shrank and went numb.
how long have you been off of TRT? in your previous post you said you on TRT for life and then you said you are off of every thing?
did you feel any suppression from TRT or Andractim?
When did I say that I’m off everything? I’m still using testosterone, and I’m experimenting with other drugs as well. Obviously TRT will cause complete suppression, but that doesn’t matter. I didn’t notice any suppression from Andractim, as my testosterone level already was low, and I had symptoms of hypogonadism before I began experimenting with it, but my sexual function didn’t get any better during treatment with Andractim either, so it’s likely that it caused suppression.
I rubbed 2.5 grams (one spatula) on my penis once a day. That’s a lot of gel.
sorry I mixed you with sanane.
how long have you been on TRT?
you mentioned you are getting benefits from proviron. Do you feel its effects are declining over time as reported by others?
2 years. I don’t notice any effects from Proviron when my testosterone/estrogen ratio is way off. When it’s optimal, a low dose like 12.5 mg twice a day, increases the libido significantly.
and you are still applying DHT and enjoying the benefits?