The official brain fog (damage) thread.

#1

Inspired by robertino totti, this thread is for people to describe what is termed brain fog. In my opinion this is by far the most serious problem i have, and it is showing no signs of resolving 18 months off the drug.
I am a danger to go outside, drive a car, go to work, ride a bike etc. … why is this side being over looked?
Here is my description:

"It feels like everything is going to fast, like i am not real, in a dream or something, like my eyes and ears are not connected to my brain, i cant interpret available information in real time.

Its not brain fog, its brain damage and it fucken sucks!"

Please post about your own experiances from finasteride induced brain damage.

IT IS A FUCKING NIGHTMARE EVERY MINUTE OF EVERYDAY!!!

#2

You seem to have a uniquely bad experience of brain fog, tim. Most of us seem to have depressive or impairment symptoms commonly associated with low T. Also, I’m not meaning to be offensive here but I still can’t really understand your symptoms from how you describe it. I don’t really understand what others mean when they talk of ‘being in a movie’ either,
although I could have similar feelings I’m not aware of for all I know.

I’ll list my mental side effects to flesh out this stupid and ill-fitting phrase ‘brain fog’.

Bad short term memory: frequently forget to do stuff I had planned to do only minutes or even moments earlier. Very mildly there on fin, awful post crash.
Word finding difficulty: nothing flows freely from my mind anymore. I used to be able to type lengthy, eloquent e-mails at work or to friends with ease (probably slightly dropped off while using fin but not so much that I’d notice), now it’s a real chore to type much. This also ties in with loss of creativity. Also seem to make far more ‘typos’ these days.
Poorer social skills: I find myself with fewer things to say and tend to drift out of conversations quite easily, not having said much. Much less talkative.
Poorer attention span: I get restless and don’t have the patience to concentreate on things at all. This has probably improved a lot from year one off the drug but is still probably far off my normal personality.
Spaced out: I can just zone out into a world of my own and not communicate much, sort of zombied out. Looking back I had this a bit on fin too.
Passive personality/anehdonia: don’t really give a toss about anything anymore. Ties in with no emotions, I had blunted emotions on fin for sure.

Throw in severe depression since crashing, although this thankfully has improved as some of my physical symptoms do, as with time I come to terms with having my life destroyed, and the range of mental problems incurred by this drug is catastrophic in itself. The problem is that because like every other fucking symptom induced by this poison, with the exception of moobs or peyronies, it is ‘subjective’ and difficult to diagnose, thus you don’t even get any sympathy or understanding, let alone attempts to treat it, from most docs. If a couple of dozen guys had gone blind from propecia use it would probably have been off the shelves by now.

The mental sides are frustrating for me because I can remember how different I felt when not taking fin for a while three years ago. Other people remarked how much more talkative I was; I was happier, less anxious and more outgoing. The man I would have been had I not found out about finasteride. I’m not saying I was under a cloud for five or six years but I can see with hindsight it changed me. A lot of long-teerm users are probably unaware or in denial about their mental sides on the drug cos they probably took it without breaks for years and forgot wtf they were really like drug free. Even then however, I had a glance at this site before I crashed and didn’t really get what people meant by brain fog, it was only in my pfs life I fully understood it. In the days before my crash it literally felt like my mind was drifting in and out of fog. The cognitive dysfunction, as opposed to blunted personality on fin, only took hold after I crashed; I worked in a lot of competitive sales jobs and was always a top performer - I’d have been found out easily with bad brain fog. I can’t imagine ever doing that line of work again.

One thing is that I can still enjoy music. I wouldn’t like that at all as I have always loved music. However, I tend to listen to the same things a lot, again due to a certain lack of certain creative spark. Obvioulsy I avoid any sentimentailty, love songs, and things that remind me of different or happier times.

The important thing is not to give in to it. Without wishing to sound supercilious, a lot of people are slow witted, forgetful and dull. People will not notice it much unless you point it out to them. Interacting with people is good practice for training your brain back to some semblance of normality. I do consider ‘brain fog’ another horrid consequence of this rank rotten rat poison, but for me it’s below the sexual and physical sides.

#3

I’ve been asked by Tim to help to add to this post, so I will do my best…

First of all, the laughable term ‘Brain fog,’ should be done away with right away. You may as well call us ‘space cadet’s’ on a voyage to mars. I think the lighter the term, and loosely defined, the easier Merck Co., will easily dismiss it as mere ‘Depression.’ Depression, mind you gentlemen, is a very loose term, and readily thrown around these days in modern times. In my opinion, it is very demeaning in regards to our condition and ongoing illness. Anyone these days, can be ‘depressed’ or even ‘brain fogged’; either on or off drugs. The terms depression or brain fog, are not at all what we have, and it’s much more important to try and describe what we do suffer from seamlessly, so that when the time comes, the general public and court system will be able to understand us, and have some semblance of sympathy toward us, and not contempt. I’m 100% sure, that the conservative lot of people, will already find us to be vain, stupid and egomanical, for even trying propecia for hair loss. If we side that it’s mere depression, or even hint at(as most have all been doing here on the forum) which technically it’s NOT, then they will be able to break us down easily and disregard us. We need to all find some common ground, since a great many of us have these daily, ongoing, frightening brain altered/damaged-like symptoms.

Any one else want to offer a more dignified, intelligent, respectful way to describe this hellish state and seriously frightening condition we are in? Please feel free.

Here are mine: Ongoing Cognitive Disruption / Ongoing Cognitive Impairment, or since stopping.

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#4

Seriously, I am really getting upset/frustrated with all the current media attention focused on the damaging sexual side of things, when i know damn well, that society at large, will not offer us much sympathy initially, and will look at us like vain dolted idiot’s, because of the stigma sex still has, in white bread, sexually and puritanically two-faced America.

Listen, I think there should definitely be a more balanced amount of coverage out there now. How about a guy talking to the media about the mental side’s only. There is no balance of current media exposure, between the brain guys and sex guys. This is totally wrong. There should be distinct separation, since both are tragic, yet polar opposite’s to the average person out there, only exposed to the generic bare fact’s, that propecia has been long linked to sexual side’s and sexual dysfunction. I think it’s about time, that the general public and media, begin to understand, and familiarize themselves to the fact, that propecia can fry one’s brain post use!

I am tempted to start a separate website or forum for the ‘cognitively impaired’ lot.
We need to have a separate voice, our guy’s to speak to the media, or press, as I so reluctantly did, for the newspaper, and tried really hard to only talk about my mental side’s. I was misunderstood and never said I was depressed during the interview, and this is important, because like I said, depression, is a loose word thrown around these days. I was taken out of context for the record. For example, take a look at Merck’s new cute label side’s add-on:Depression. I am not depressed. I will be honest with you, the reporter was completely fixated with asking me the dick trouble questions, when all I wanted to talk about, was the mash potato of a brain I now have.

Here’s the article again:
articles.courant.com/2011-03-03/news/hc-buck-propecia-lawsuit-0304-20110303_1_side-effects-propecia-hair-loss

If you can’t fuck, you can’t fuck…If you can’t think straight, or your heads fucked, then you will have trouble with just daily survival and getting through in life. You tell me which one is worse…I’d take a limp dick any day over Brain Damage, Dementia, MS or Alzheimer’s, sir…

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#5

“One thing is that I can still enjoy music. I wouldn’t like that at all as I have always loved music. However, I tend to listen to the same things a lot, again due to a certain lack of certain creative spark. Obvioulsy I avoid any sentimentailty, love songs, and things that remind me of different or happier times.”

LuckFax. Me too and good for you. Music is still a great comfort to me thankfully…I am a creative and my interest in my art has definitely waned with my ‘pfs,’ but music still helps and is a great release.

#6

Tim and LuckFax…

Get this straight, we all suffer from very similar, and incredibly scary mental symptoms…it’s just that describing our symptom’s, so wretchedly, as brain fog or depression, should stop.

Too weak and generic of a word. Remember also, that we should be careful with our wording, for comprehension and respect purposes. We also need the attention and sympathy, from the media, as well as the general public, and not to mention, having doctors potentially understand us one day.

#7

Wording and describing thing’s well, or to the best of your ability, is extremely critical & crucial, especially with mental issue’s; either in dealing with the law, media or the general public. Focus on describing thing’s as honestly and thorough as possible…It will only benefit us in the end.

Focusing on or uttering anything close to depression, or feeling’s will sink us.

Remember, the more cohesive we present ourselves as, the stronger our positions. Don’t let anyone dismiss our devastating suffering and mental anguish, as mere depression, or fog. Do not give them that luxury. Please.

I found this interesting - I do warn you - It is rather sad and scary:
independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/drugs-linked-to-brain-damage-30-years-ago-2127504.html

#8

While I’ve definitely suffered major depressive symptoms (anti-social, suicidal though, no desire to shower/dress) after quitting fin, as robertino noted, there is a distinct brain issue separate from the symptoms of clinical depression.

I think what I would call my symptoms would be a “functional paralysis.” Not that that term is a workable one, just that’s how I would describe my set of symptoms. There are really three major parts to my cognitive problems (other than the depression): focus, dissociation, “somatic anxiety”.

  1. Focus
    The best I can describe my focus issue is as such: You’re watching someone bowl; however, instead of fluidly seeing the entire sequence of ball being released, rolling down the lane, and striking the pins you see the intermittent pieces of the action. You see the ball released, then at 5’ down the lane, then 10’, then 15’, then hitting the pins, then the pins have fallen over. You know that the ball traveled between feet 1-5, but you didn’t really recognize it happening. Now, in this scenario, your mind can still keep track of what is occurring because you’re constantly being fed clues toward a distinct ending (pins falling over), even though your mind keeps refocusing every second or so. However, in a conversation, where topics can change and interruptions occur, this level of focus makes anything above basic chat impossible. There’s no way to have any internal dialogue and assess what is going on during a conversation because you can’t really even keep pace with what is occurring externally.

  2. Dissociation
    This effect is also a real bi*** (aren’t they all?). For anyone who’s an athlete, you know how you “get in the zone,” and you’re more aware of what’s going on around you? This is the complete opposite. Actually, it’s a little like when someone is in John Malkovich in the movie “Being John Malkovich,” except you know it’s your body, but doesn’t feel that way at all. I don’t know if my senses are actually weaker, or that I just am still very disconnected. If you’ve ever thought about causing yourself physical harm without wanting to harm yourself just so you could feel some sensation, I’d say you have this part of the problem.

  3. Somatic Anxiety
    I refuse to call this “anxiety,” because it’s not a psychological ailment triggered by things that make people nervous. With this symptom, the body is in a constant state where minor things can throw it into a panic state. If you can imagine this, the feeling is as if you’re stuck in a state where you’ve felt someone push your back when you’re standing on a ledge. You could be drinking tea next to a fireplace in your luxury robe and your body will still be acting as if you were watching a tiger lurking toward you. My experience with this has been marked with heart palpitations, constant restlessness, and significant reactions to minor stressors.

Fortunately, over the past few months, these symptoms have begun to abate. In my situation, I think that they are connected to the same cause, as they alleviate concurrently.

#9

Yes this thread has nothing to do with anxiety and depression. This is to do with a part of your brain not working anymore, she’s roped off, out of action, a no go zone.

Luckfax, being in a movie, its kind of like you are trapped in a world of surrealness, things dont mean anything, interpretation is slowed.

If i killed myself it would be because of this not ed or libido, that is nothing to me.

This must be a very rare adverse reaction, but it exists, and any drug that can do this should not be available.
And merck wheres this on the side effects list? … Brain damage .3%, will resolve on discontinueation of drug, cough cough, what a fucken laugh all this is, fuck you merck.

#10

Good thread. I think it’s worthwhile to get better language around the actual experience of the cognitive side effects.

I recognize many of the descriptions here. In addition, I want to mention a sense of ‘concreteness’ that pervades my everyday experience. Not to get too philosophical about it, but it’s like people, objects, situations, places, just appear “as they are”. They have no emotional connotations for me anymore. They don’t represent anything else than their physical presence. Things just exist. And the world is just a less interesting place because of it.

Ugh.

#11

Yeah this is so true the ed symptoms get way more attention than the mental sides what about us??
I got some libido problems but the mental sides are way more disturbing.This does seem to be way more than anxiety its anxiety on steroids.Its more like depersonalization,derealization disorder with agoraphobia and a constant weird feeling in your brain thats hard to explain but this makes life miserable.Ive been off fin, going on 3 years and my mind still is screwed up.Wheres all the studies and research for us that we also so desperately need???

#12

The mental impairment is certainly the worst of all side effects. Strangely, for me they have became most severe after i made a very promising temporary recovery. I find describing the ‘mental impairment’ symptoms very difficult but i will give it a go.

Anhedonia - i literally do not care about anything. I am about to drop out of university, which puts me in a very poor position in life as it stands and i haven’t even thought twice about it. If i were to win the lottery, all i would want to do is buy my own house somewhere secluded and focus on recovery. I wouldn’t really feel any happiness about it.

Speech problems - i will get my words mumbled in conversation, say half words, stutter, slur my words. All often while being unable to look people in the eye. I can not put a cohesive sentence/ conversation together half of the time. It’s as if i just become ‘stuck’ at times.

Anxious/ on edge - this is the very worst. I can wake up and be completely phased, i can barely talk to people properly, my brain feels half shut down. It’s as if my body is disconnected from my brain somewhat and all my senses are numbed. I am startled by noises very easily at times. Any sort of stress and i just start breaking down. As i have mentioned previously - even playing computer games or mixing music at times produces too much adrenaline/ stress for my body to handle and i ‘crash’ out.

I wish i could describe how my brain and body feel on a daily basis but it is honestly very difficult. Ideally, it would be great if i could pass the feelings over to someone for a short period to show how horrible it is. This morning i walked out of the house and even walking felt strange. It’s as if i am in a haze. My eyes were irritating me as they are dry but watery and i couldn’t hold a conversation to save my life. Nor could i hardly look people in the eye.

I don’t know about anyone else but if i can sort of put these things to the back of my head for a whole day, the minute my head goes down on a pillow at night lots of strange things begin to happen.

  • internal tremor
  • racing thoughts/ thinking/ dreaming - over and over
  • constant sleep disturbances often waking up with intense anxiety
  • tingling around prostate penis area and intensifying penile numbness

Overall, i feel this is a very sad state of affairs. I believe that through taking finasteride and suffering these side effects i am at a great risk of developing mental illnesses and autoimmune problems later on life. It honestly makes sense to just pull the plug now. I have written off any chance of furthering my education and the best i can probably hope for is getting lucky and landing a job that does not require much social interaction, intelligence and overall vigor for life but yet pays enough to keep a roof over my head.

#13

Finmentia (finasteride induced dementia) is what we are dealing with here men.

Read all about it … en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia

#14

Sad to say guy’s, but the people running this site (Brilliant, generous and great human beings for maintaining and creating this forum. I have much love and respect for them.) However, from what I’ve seen over the years, this site is ‘primarily’ focused on fixing the sexual side of things. The majority of the people here have dick issue’s. No offense to the admin people. Much love. I too have been off this shit for 3 years, and still no luck.
It’s far more frustrating and hellish, to go through what we have, every single minute of the day, and feel fucked up in the head.

I suggest creating a seperate website for us mental sufferers. This is a very serious issue and we should consider this. I’m tired of waiting around and just praying for a miracle. The guy’s with plumbing issues can still work and hold jobs. Many of us with mash potato’s of a brain, really have a hard time just living and surviving on the daily.

Without question, we need to have more attention given to us in the media and research worlds, but I’m afraid we are going to have to do this on our own, and branch off eventually.

The GOAL right now, is to gain more media attention to focus solely on us guy/guys with only mental issue’s. Getting a researcher, like the GW guy, to cover and publish something on this phenomenon will take time. Mental issues are far more controversial in society, because of the stigma, controversy and the potential link to disability insurance (follow the money). Why do you think Merck JUST added depression to their poison potion of mental death?

#15

I feel you Robertino to be kind of upset at how this site is mainly devoted to people complaining about how there equipment dont work.But they can at least still enjoy the simple things in life like going to the bar,mall,work,vacation,socializing,etc…While for us or at least in my case these things are a challenge that seems impossible to overcome.I pretty much feel fucked up 24/7 its frustrating to see all these normal people having fun and going places while im stuck in constant turmoil just dreaming about my pre fin days.
I can relate to you and your symptoms,for me its like whatever makes your brain and body calm and relaxed doesnt work no more.Have you tried any supplements/exercise? For me i haven’t i also need to see a endo because im tired of this crap we need answers…

#16

Yes we need everyone with “mashed potatoes for brains” to post here. This is an extremly alarming reaction (not a side effect as its all i can think about, i cant get away from it).

#17

If you can get ahold of an alpha-stim scs it will reverse all of the mental issues within a week and they will stay reversed. That’s been my experience.

#18

If you can get ahold of an alpha-stim scs it will reverse all of the mental issues within a week and they will stay reversed. That’s been my experience.
[/quote]
Dude, many of us are incapable of buying a cup of coffee. You mean this?

google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aheadwithautism.com/images/alpha-stim.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.aheadwithautism.com/alpha-stim.html&usg=__JkHCrVKo32Wo75jN2MDtDIHqEn8=&h=200&w=132&sz=20&hl=en&start=10&zoom=1&tbnid=U88UTeISIhyGjM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=69&ei=mkubToOhKoPL0QGBntjCBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dalpha-stim%2Bscs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

I appreciate the effort Joe, but I have tried meditative state’s, but they are simply temporary fixes towards the frightful effect’s of the mental side’s of our illness. I find it difficult to think, that alpha-stim scs, would be any different from listening to the sounds of nature(waterfalls, the ocean surf) every day for a week straight :frowning:

#19

Joe. No offense, cause your a fellow suffering brotha’ and much love…but your shit got dick issue’s bro…why you posting here?

#20

Plus. Having a mash potatoed brain and broke, makes it hard to buy an alpha-stim scs…these shit’s go for alot of money I need right now just to live brotha’…

Just like these so called specialists, that the rich suffering propecia dudes can afford, where is the guarantee?