Yeah, it’s just another thing to look into.
Most of us aren’t “very ill” and therefore are unlikely to ever dedicate ourselves to such a protocol, especially since it’s such an unproven one at this point in time.
I’d be interested on JN’s thoughts on this one.
Yep.
Yep.
Why on earth do we need JN’s thought’s on this? we need to see some test results for 1,25D going by the quotes you just posted up. Let’s just cut to the chase here to see whether the MP is worth looking into any further or lets just leave the thread alone and let it go dead.
I think we have already gone over this via another thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5403&p=42235#p42235
If anyone has 1,25D results please post them up, if we see a pattern of high readings - MP is worth looking into further, until then, there is nothing much to say.
Because he is one of the guys who have had excellent success treating things from a immune system perspective (atleast, recently). More importantly, i’d be interested in hearing Dr Emerson’s views on the MP.
JN did it in a totally different manner. Plus he embraced sunlight and vitamin D. Emerson also promotes vitamin D from natural sunlight as an essential component to good health and vitality. This goes against the MP COMPLETELY.
What are you expecting Dr. Emerson to say? he does not treat ‘PFS’ and has no particular knowledge of ‘PFS’ so why would he have any valuable insight into whether the MP will be a useful treatment? I have no issue with you wanting to contact Dr. Emerson but i don’t understand your motive. You say that you are ‘interested’ in his ‘view on MP’ what use is that to us? how on earth is he meant to know whether the MP will benefit someone with sexual problems after using finasteride when the cause is unknown?
It’s all good and well geting some ‘interesting’ views from people, but would it not be more simple to just get the test that i have highlighted in red 3 times? the test Golf made a thread on a month ago to verify whether it was worth looking into the MP?
That’s the point.
Dr Emerson seems very clued in with this stuff, im sure he has an opinion on MP and potentially a very enlightening one.
Dr Emerson has seen a few guys with PFS. We are looking at MP from the perspective that our immune systems have been compromised. This is what makes MP relevant. Therefore, generic debate on whether MP is effective at what it claims to be is entirely relevant given that is the aspect of PFS (immunity) that we are contemplating.
Definately. Although, it’s immediately apparent that we are lacking this information right now.
mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/vitamind
it makes sense that JN advocates sunlight:
there is a good explanation on the MP website on why sunlight (and production
of vit D -> 25-D) is immunodepressant
so “It explains how a “vitamin” can exert short-term palliative effects”
but on the long run it may let the bacterias proliferate.
(On the very long run, it can alliviate symptoms for years:
One of the abiding weaknesses of studies on the effects of vitamin D on health is that researchers simply do not follow subjects consuming the secosteroid for a sufficient period of time. Instead, they tend to track subjects over the course of weeks, months, or one or two years, during the period of time when study participants are usually feeling the palliative effects of the steroid.)
yes we should test 1,25 D and 25 D it may be interesting.
Great link Blase. So:
. Mens Rea - are you going to email Emerson and JN?
. Everyone - if you have the other vitamin D test result please post them
There is a thread where Mew tallied up low Vitamin D-25 values:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3420&hilit=post+your+vitamin+d
And Kazman points out that 1,25 D is actually significant…sounds like he was reading MP literature…
It’d be interesting to see if any of those members who posted their D scores can dig up their original lab work and see if 1,25 was also tested for.
Can someone interpret this post of troubledfinuser2?
RESULTS
1,25(OH)2D3 most substantially increased the expression of the insulin-like growth factor binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) gene. Our analysis also revealed several novel 1,25(OH)2D3-responsive genes. Interestingly, some of the key genes regulated by 1,25(OH)2D3 are also androgen-responsive genes. 1,25(OH)2D3 also down-regulated genes that mediate androgen catabolism.
CONCLUSIONS
The putative 1,25(OH)2D3 target genes appear to be involved in a variety of cellular functions including growth regulation, differentiation, membrane transport, cell–cell and cell–matrix interactions, DNA repair, and inhibition of metastasis. The up-regulation of IGFBP-3 gene has been shown to be crucial in 1,25(OH)2D3-mediated inhibition of LNCaP cell growth. 1,25(OH)2D3 regulation of androgen-responsive genes as well as genes involved in androgen catabolism suggests that there are interactions between 1,25(OH)2D3 and androgen signaling pathways in LNCaP cells. Further studies on the role of these genes and others in mediating the anti-cancer effects of 1,25(OH)2D3 may lead to better approaches to the prevention and treatment of prostate cancer. © 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
…
Real-time RT-PCR showed that DHT at 1–100 nM significantly inhibited 1,25-(OH)2D3-induced expression of 24-hydroxylase in LNCaP cells. Furthermore, the catabolism of 1,25-(OH)2D3 was decreased by 10 nM DHT. An androgen receptor (AR) antagonist, Casodex antagonized the DHT effect, whereas an AR agonist (due to the mutant AR in LNCaP cells) hydroxyflutamide did not.
Since i have not visited the board frequently lately im assuming you have more info on the dht vitamin d3 connection in the prostate. Cant seem to find studies on this site, maybe im just a bad searcher?
If im understanding this right then DHT will lower vitamin d3 and low vitamin d3 initself downregulate genes that mediate androgen breakdown (catabolism)? now what does breakdown (catabolism) in this scenario mean in layman terms?
Bluejay’s fan had high/over-the-range Vitamin D 1,25…but I guess he was also supplementing D3 (I assume)…which might not mean anything…
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Also, more on the VDR & Prostate connection…
toad,
I understand the test that is done is for D25. That is what I had done multiple times, but if you are going to supplement for Vit D you take Vit D3.
Are you saying there is is a D25 supplement? If one exists I’m not aware of it. Bottom line if we buy into this MP theory, supplementing Vit D could be doing more damage than actually helping.
No he’s not - he’s just saying that is the important vitamin D test. High reading means infection and potential for MP treatment.
That is why I dont supplement. and the one person who is doing better then all of us is Ihatepropecia and his vitamin level is 9…
anyone trying benicar yet?
Another link on benicar:
[Size=4]“can prevent and reverse atherosclerotic processes including: oxidative stress,1 endothelial inflammation,2 remodelling of cardiac vascular tissues,3,4 development of atherosclerotic lesions5 and reduction of large plaques.6,7 These additional vascular protective effects appear to be independent of olmesartan’s blood-pressure-reducing function.6,7”[/size]
It would be great to see someone trying Benicar or the MP under a doctors supervision.
1,25-D has a kD of 8.05 for the androgen receptor, and a Kd of 8.12 for the glucocorticoid receptor. Elevated 1,25-D can displace cortisol and testosterone from their target receptors as well, leading to an array of other hormonal imbalances.
Has anyone tried the Marshall Protocol?
Has anyone even dabbled with Benicar or consulted with an MP doc?
Anyone actively studying/considering the MP?
Please PM me if so.
Thanks
I think i’m one of the few (only?) to have both D1,25 and D25 checked (for the record, my PFS is quite mild). I had high D1,25 and low D25, which is an unusual outcome. Further, recent thyroid tests show that I am borderline hypothyroid. I think others should have these tests run - could be an interesting path to explore.
I’ve read that Quest no longer freezes the 1,25-D as required for a useful result, at least according to the MP folks. You must specifically request this.
Regardless, Vit D levels are not the catch-all for an MP diagnosis of TH1 disease. They suggest a therapeutic trial of the protocol whenever clinical observation suggests an auto-immune / chronic infectious/inflammatory disease condition.
Also not sure how the high supplementation most of us PFSers have been doing affects interpretation of results.