The link between hypothyroidism & Low Testosterone

bostonusa2009 · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Having Good thyroid hormone activity is necessary for testicular hormone production.
Low thyroid hormone activity often results in insulin resistance.

If you have hypothyroidism your body may become resistant to insulin. The Insulin resistance caused by hypothyroidism may be what has caused the reduction in Testosterone for some of us.

ezinearticles.com/?Hypothyroidis … &id=730898

Insulin resistance interferes with LH production and may also directly reduce testicular testosterone production.

Increasing Insulin Resistance Is Associated with a Decrease in Leydig Cell Testosterone Secretion in Men

Insulin resistance is associated with low testosterone (T) levels in men, the mechanism of which is unclear. Thus, the aim of this study was to evaluate the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis in men with a spectrum of insulin sensitivity. Twenty-one men (aged 25–65 yr) had a glucose tolerance test and assessment of insulin sensitivity using a hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp. Insulin sensitivity, expressed as the M value (milligrams per kilograms–1 per minute–1), was calculated from the glucose disposal rate during the final 30 min of the clamp. Eighteen subjects had blood sampling every 10 min for 12 h to assess LH pulsatility. Hypogonadism was then induced with a GnRH antagonist, followed by sequential stimulation testing with GnRH (750 ng/kg, iv) and human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG; 1000 IU, im) to assess pituitary and testicular responsiveness, respectively. Nine subjects had normal glucose tolerance, nine had impaired glucose tolerance, and three had diabetes mellitus. There was a positive relationship between M and T levels (r = 0.46; P < 0.05). No relationship was seen between M and parameters of LH secretion, including mean LH levels, LH pulse amplitude, LH pulse frequency, and LH response to exogenous GnRH administration. In contrast, a strong correlation was observed between M and the T response to hCG (r = 0.73; P < 0.005). Baseline T levels correlated with the increase in T after hCG administration (r = 0.47; P < 0.05). During the clamp, T levels increased from a baseline level of 367 ± 30 to 419 ± 38 ng/dl during the last 30 min (P < 0.05). From these data we conclude that insulin resistance is associated with a decrease in Leydig cell T secretion in men. Additional studies are required to determine the mechanism of this effect.

jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2636

dlife.com/diabetes-news/2006 … elate.html

Luckfax · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

When I first quit I had mad dehydration and difficulty swallowing wonder if this was related.

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Thanks Boston, good post. This makes a lot of sense. I really hope you and JN are on to something. I’m shopping for a clinic here hoping to start testing this week. If it’s not possible I will try to find dessicated thyroid and do a little self-medicating as a test. I’ve got too many things going wrong in my body to wait longer, and the longer I wait the less positive effect exercise has on my body.

bostonusa2009 · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Martin,

thanks, we know the link is there. Now we just need to see some uptick in Testosterone for those of us that are treating our thyroid.

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Connection between taxing the liver/kidneys through finasteride excretion and impaired thyroid function. Also can explain why CDNUTS feels better after doing the cleanse and raw food diet:

www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/HypoT.html

“T4 - 99.95% of this hormone released from the thyroid is protein bound - mainly to the thyroxine binding globulin (TBG). The half life of this hormone once released into the blood stream is about 6 days. This is the precursor to the active T3 hormone. Conversion of this hormone to the T3 hormone occurs in the kidney and liver. If your liver or kidney is compromised by heavy metals or other environmental toxins or even toxins in your food such as preservatives the ability to convert effectively will be compromised. In many cases a good liver and kidney cleanse can increase the level of active thyroid hormone. Maintaining a clean /organic whole foods diet will help as well.”

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Additional info about iodine/iodide and thyroide:

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4111

LINK WAS INCORRECT, FIXED NOW

bostonusa2009 · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

martinM:

Connection between taxing the liver/kidneys through finasteride excretion and impaired thyroid function. Also can explain why CDNUTS feels better after doing the cleanse and raw food diet:

naturalthyroidchoices.com/HypoT.html

“T4 - 99.95% of this hormone released from the thyroid is protein bound - mainly to the thyroxine binding globulin (TBG). The half life of this hormone once released into the blood stream is about 6 days. This is the precursor to the active T3 hormone. Conversion of this hormone to the T3 hormone occurs in the kidney and liver. If your liver or kidney is compromised by heavy metals or other environmental toxins or even toxins in your food such as preservatives the ability to convert effectively will be compromised. In many cases a good liver and kidney cleanse can increase the level of active thyroid hormone. Maintaining a clean /organic whole foods diet will help as well.”

Martin,

this would not surprise me to find out that liver bile or kidneys were tied into this. I just don’t have the time to do a fast like the one CD did right now. My life would need to go on hold. I wish I could do that right now.

I have doctor apt on Monday and I will go for a blood test the following day. I’m going to have them do Reverse T3 blood test. I was tested positive for hypothyroidism.

However, now that I understand the treatment of thyroid problems a little better I need to now if I have high RT3. My doctor has me on Armour right now, 1 grain 60mg and 30mcg T4.

I started taking the Armour first as it was filled at my local pharmacy and then four days later picked up the T4 at the compounding pharm. Two days after I started taking the additional T4, I started to feel worse. I wondered if this was the source of the problem, so I stopped using the T4.

Last week, I started wondering if If maybe what I was feeling was coincidence and started taking the additional T4 with the Armour again. Two days later, I couldn’t sleep at all. It was pushing me to hper instead of hypo. I had heart palpations for like 12 hours straight.

I brought all this up, because if I have high RT3, the last thing I need is additional T4. The proper way to treat high T3 is using slow release T3, like JN is doing.

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Boston, this is the EXACT SAME REACTION I GET TO IODINE SUPPLEMENTATION.

I posted an incorrect link here earlier about thyroid function, cortisol, and aldosterone. Here’s the correct one:

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4111

I definitely respond to treatments of Iodine (thyroid) and sea salt for salt wasting (low aldosterone). I don’t have a way to supplement cortisol yet. This path of testing and treatment is very encouraging!

bostonusa2009 · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Martin,

I hadn’t used my iodine in a while and when I saw you post this I thought I would give it another try. I took some iodine and a tea spoon of sea salt. I noticed on the label for the sea salt it contains magnesium, which the doctor told me most people with hypothyroidism are low in this. My magnesium number was of course low.

Well I already experienced positive results after just one day. I’ll keep with this routine and hope this is really helping.

tim1911 · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

I have been taking kelp for 6 days now, yesterday i had some sea salt in water also.
I had a terrible nights sleep but had a morning erection that lasted about 15mins. It was a blast from the past, none of this post fin rubbish…it was fully hard, throbbing with that buzzing felling in my cock. I was so proud of it.

Also i measured my temp at the same time 96.3

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:23am

Guys pay attention to how much iodine you use. I’m painting a 1 cm x 1 cm square on my upper inner arm every 24 - 48 hours. More than this is too much for me. It’s something I’m having to introduce slowly. Same for sea salt, 1/2-1 teaspoon 2 times a day, mornings and afternoons. I’ve done a couple tablespoons spread through the day but got too much edema. I eat a banana first for the stomach and some potassium for balance.

I’m having some very positive benefits including:

-real sleep with vivid dreams
-urination is close to pre-fin pressure. Streams can be started and stopped easily
-reduced urination urgency
-greater muscle endurance (no sore muscles after the gym)
-some strong erections close to pre-fin size, less shrinkage
-real sweat
-an throbbing right testicle swollen with the good feeling for the first time in years

Some negative benefits:

-Some edema (water retention in face and midsection)
-negative, aggressive mental energy. I had this often before fin, some of it has come back

I just started supplementing both about 5 days ago, so I don’t want to go too far here, but the reaction continues to be encouraging!

EDIT: I got my first piss boner waking up this morning since…well…I don’t even know when

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:24am

Here is some further description taken from a thread in one of Anon’s posts on the TFT thread:

A healthy thyroid produces the following hormones: T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin. T4, a storage hormone and the most abundant, is meant to convert to T3, the most active hormone. T3 is also produced directly.

In any situation where your body needs to conserve energy, such as emotional, physical, or biological stress, your thyroid will properly convert any excess T4 to the inactive Reverse T3 (RT3) as a way to clear out the extra T4.

When stress is excessive, your adrenal glands produce high amounts of cortisol to help you cope. The excess cortisol inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3, and instead produces even larger amounts of RT3.

Because an over-abundance of RT3 (RT3 dominance) blocks the ability of the cell receptors to receive T3, hypothyroid symptoms are the result, including a lowered body temperature, fatigue, anxiety, weight gain and a host of other symptoms.

With labwork, you are not necessarily looking for a RT3 result high in the range. Instead, you are looking for a problem in the ratio between the RT3 and the Free T3.
To read about RT3 problems, you can read patient Nick Foote’s compilation of Questions and Answers gleaned from the RT3 Yahoo group.

thyroid-rt3.com/

martinM · May 25, 2018, 6:25am

Here’s a member of Dr. Chrysler’s forum who had a significant testosterone increase after properly using T3:

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52078&postcount=11

Originally Posted by NeverQuit
You are right Jan. The reason that T4 doesn’t work for most and why Armour does not work for many is the T4 component. T4 very quickly reduces TSH and if you are not converting it properly it is even worse. Your body goes hypo which can slow down it’s already impaired ability to convert T4 even further. T3 is the answer here. There is no relying on anything else. T3 is the active form. It works 100% and there is no guessing about conversion or any other nonsense.

It is also much, much easier to regulate because of it’s shorter 1/2 life. If you take too much you can correct your overstimulated or condition with in hours to a couple days. It makes it much easier to adjust than the weeks you have to wait when using a t4 containing product.

I have had excellent success with T3. Where T4 made me weak, dizzy and sick. T3 made me feel great. My testosterone went from 200’s to 700 within a month when I got to my full dose and my metabolism was finally properly regulated.

I think many people get shafted by doctors using t4 or armour that go by labs instead of using t3 and measuring metabolism. I am sure there are lots of guys out there who are on TRT because they have not gotten enough T3 to regulate their perfectly fine working gonads.

bostonusa2009 · May 25, 2018, 6:25am

martinM:

Here’s a member of Dr. Chrysler’s forum who had a significant testosterone increase after properly using T3:

http://musclechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52078&postcount=11

Originally Posted by NeverQuit
You are right Jan. The reason that T4 doesn’t work for most and why Armour does not work for many is the T4 component. T4 very quickly reduces TSH and if you are not converting it properly it is even worse. Your body goes hypo which can slow down it’s already impaired ability to convert T4 even further. T3 is the answer here. There is no relying on anything else. T3 is the active form. It works 100% and there is no guessing about conversion or any other nonsense.

It is also much, much easier to regulate because of it’s shorter 1/2 life. If you take too much you can correct your overstimulated or condition with in hours to a couple days. It makes it much easier to adjust than the weeks you have to wait when using a t4 containing product.

I have had excellent success with T3. Where T4 made me weak, dizzy and sick. T3 made me feel great. My testosterone went from 200’s to 700 within a month when I got to my full dose and my metabolism was finally properly regulated.

I think many people get shafted by doctors using t4 or armour that go by labs instead of using t3 and measuring metabolism. I am sure there are lots of guys out there who are on TRT because they have not gotten enough T3 to regulate their perfectly fine working gonads.

Nice find, I imagined these types of success stories would be out there. These real world stories are very encouraging. I think this is what all of us are praying for, that fixing the thyroid can bring the other problems back in line.

The only component left for me if the Testosterone could increase would be sensativity when having sex. Do we know if that is associated with Testosterone or would that be a completely different animal?

Unfortunately, I now have to keep my fingers crossed and hope the test shows high RT3. I guess since I am taking the armour which has T4 in it, it should be expected that if I had high RT3 at the onset of taking the medication it would further raise that level of RT3. We will see soon.

tim1911 · May 25, 2018, 6:25am

Boston does the armour do anything for your sex sides if so what?

bostonusa2009 · May 25, 2018, 6:25am

I’m not sure if I posted this on my own person thread, but I guess the subject criteria here is somewhat relevant.

Initially I started taking the armour, one day I was sitting at work and I felt that libido desire come on. Now keep in mind, it has been years since I felt that and I felt it was mild not intense. I just didn’t think if was worth mentioning so, I never posted anything about it.

I stopped taking the armour thinking it might not be the right dosage, then overal crappy again. So I restarted taking it again(you can read this on my personal thread)
Within two days of taking it again, I felt amazingly great mentally, tons of energy and two days in a row I felt a strong desire for sex.

The libido has since weened slightly, but I am suspecting that this is more attributable to my dosage not being right or that I should be on only T3 rather the Armour, which is a mix of T1, T2, T3 & T4.

I waiting to have a test done for RT3 levels to determine if I do have high RT3. I will update on my thread when I get the results.

I do suspect there a large number of guys that belong to this site that have a thyroid problem and unfortunately a lot of them will go undiagnosed for years.

bluejaysfan · May 25, 2018, 6:25am

I saw a naturopath today, waiting for test results, but, have a feeling hypothyroidism might show in the results.

If so, I’ve been googling about Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) as a natural option to help the thyroid.

douglaslabs.com/pdf/nutrinew … t%20(01-07.pdf

Phytotherapeutics for Optimal Conversion of T4
to T3, with Decreased rT3 Production
Phytotherapeutic agents targeted to support optimal
thyroid hormone metabolism towards T3 and away from
rT3, include agents which directly increase iodothyronine
deiodinase activity, such as forskolin from Coleus forskohlii,
and agents which preserve iodothyronine deiodinase activity
by decreasing NF-kappaB activation, such as xanthohumol
from Humulus lupulus, guggulsterones from Commiphora
mukul, Carnosol from Rosmarinus officinalis, and withanolides
from Withania somnifera.

In addition to decreasing NF-kappaB activation,
guggulsterones also directly stimulate triiodothyronine (T3)
production through its action on liver enzymes, while also
increasing the activity of endogenous antioxidants.
Coleus forskohlii, Humulus lupulus, Commiphora mukul,
Rosmarinus officinalis and Withania somnifera all support
the important step of converting T4 to the more active T3,
while opposing the production of the less potent reverse T3.

golf · May 25, 2018, 6:26am

sorry if these were posted already

Thyroid. 2004;14 Suppl 1:S17-25.

The interrelationships between thyroid dysfunction and hypogonadism in men and boys.
Meikle AW.

Division of Endocrinology, University of Utah School of Medicine, Endocrine Testing Laboratory ARUP, 615 Arapeen Drive, Salt Lake City, UT 84108, USA. Wayne.Meikle@hsc.uth.edu

Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy.

Testicular dysfunction in men with primary hypothyroidism; reversal of hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism with replacement thyroxine
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
DONNELLY P. (1 2) ; WHITE C. (3) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, Camperdown, AUSTRALIE
(2) Liverpool District Hospital, AUSTRALIE
(3) Prince of Wales Hospital, Sydney, AUSTRALIE

Résumé / Abstract
OBJECTIVE Primary hypothyroidism can cause disturbances in normal gonadal function. The aim of this study was to investigate the relationship in men between hypogonadism and primary hypothyroidism and the extent to which free and total testosterone levels rose after introduction of replacement thyroxine. DESIGN Paired study of patients in a hypothyroid and thyroxine treated state. PATIENTS Ten men with primary hypothyroidism. MEASUREMENTS Free and total testosterone, gonadotrophin and prolactin levels before and after thyroxine replacement therapy. RESULTS Low free testosterone levels (161 ± 62 pmol/l) demonstrated at the time the men were hypothyroid rose significantly with the commencement of thyroxine replacement (315 ± 141 pmol/l; P<0.001). Gonadotrophin levels were not elevated consistent with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Hyperprolactinaemia, which can occur in primary hypothyroidism and cause hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, was not present in the majority of these patients. However a reduction in prolactin level was evident with thyroxine replacement and a rise in free testosterone levels. CONCLUSION This suggests an effect of hypothyroidism on gonadotrophin secretion at the level of the hypothalamus-pituitary, either directly or through modulation of prolactin secretion. Low free testosterone may also be a contributing factor to some of the symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism in men.
Revue / Journal Title
Clinical endocrinology ISSN 0300-0664 CODEN CLECAP
Source / Source
2000, vol. 52, no2, pp. 197-201 (27 ref.)

tim1911 · May 25, 2018, 6:26am

Good find g hopefully people start getting better by t3 and this mess just dries up.