Has anyone heard of The Androgen Deprivation Syndrome
My Dr belives this is what i have (or is the closest match) caused by procepia.
prostate-cancer.org/education/sidefx/Strum_ADS.html
Any thaughts on this. Maybe this has been discussed already?
My anti-virus quarantined the link that you provided due to a trojan virus. I would recommend other people do not click on the link.
Badluck, perhaps your antivirus software was oversensitive to a cookie on that page.
I opened the link with no problems and the website is for a legitimate institution.
The U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services site even links to the institute’s home page.
The androgen deprivation syndrome as it is described there sounds very similar to what we are experiencing.
Yes, very likely considering Finasteride is an anti-androgen, reduces DHT (the most potent androgen), and is used in treatment for prostate cancer as well.
The same symptoms outlined in link above are also documented in following papers as related to symptoms of androgen deprivation therapy, as noted here: propeciahelp.com/symptoms
TRT has not been mentioned or that it does not work.
Your doctor is absolutely right. Stick around with this guy, he seems to know what he is talking about.
Extreme muscle loss in chest and arms, weight gain, fatigue, atrophy in testicles, aches and pains, impotence. Yup, all the above.
Yeah I posted this:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3771&p=22811#p22811
AFAIK though, men getting androgen ablation recover when taken off, whereas we are mostly the exact opposite.
annon: when you say your ‘doctor’ do you mean GP or uro/endo? My uro thought the same when I suggested it.
Not all men who underwent androgen deprivation recover, as noted here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1961&p=10240&hilit=potency#p10240
So, many men who never took a 5AR inhibiting drug but one that lowers their testosterone enough to drastically reduce DHT and other hormones derived from DHT (Lupron) have developed long-term hypogonadal symptoms that persist even after total testosterone returns to normal ranges.
And…
many men have developed a condition of long-term hypogonadal symptoms that persist despite normal levels of total testosterone, after taking a drug that:
directly reduces DHT by inhibiting 5AR type II (finasteride)
directly reduces DHT by inhibiting 5AR type I (isotretinoin)
directly reduces DHT by inhibiting 5AR type I and type II (dutasteride, saw palmetto)
If we are similar to the men who are suffering from the long-term form of the androgen deprivation syndrome (with symptoms despite normal levels of testosterone), would it be safe to assume that our condition has very little to do with 5-alpha reductase and everything to do with having very low levels of DHT for a period of time?
I know this isn’t any kind of revelation, but the fact that men who never took a 5ARI are having symptoms very similar to ours corroborates the theories that do not rely on ongoing inhibition of 5 alpha reductase as the cause of our problems.
Your reasoning sounds spot on.
Some people have PFS even after only having used finasteride for a couple of weeks. Do you really think that low DHT levels for a couple of weeks could cause PFS?
Good question. Does anybody know of any case of persistent sides (despite good hormonal levels) caused by few days of another type of anti-androgen, such as lupron?
From what I remember reading, finasteride can suppress DHT for several weeks after taking the last dose. I’m not sure about the other 5AR inhibitors.
This is another good question, but one that would be very difficult to find an answer to. These poor guys that have to take lupron sound like they are on the drug for a good while. I doubt too many of them have just dabbled or experimented with taking the drug and probably expect to see side effects soon after beginning treatment anyways. If they begin to feel like shit, it means the drug is working and they keep taking it. They are treating a deadly disease rather than being duped into taking a dangerous drug for minor cosmetic flaws
True. But we’re still only talking about perhaps 1-2 months of low DHT for those that have taken Propecia for ~1-4 weeks.
Since Propecia only inhibits 5AR-2, one theory could be that the body tries to compensate this by increasing the amount of 5AR-1 while on Propecia. And then when the treatment is stopped, the 5AR-1 and 5AR-2 levels switch back and forth trying to establish a new balanced state, and it ends up differently than before Propecia was taken. I.e. perhaps there is less 5AR-1 and more 5AR-2 than before, or vice versa.
Also, since 5AR is a paracrine hormone (i.e. it is produced locally and acts locally in parts of the body) perhaps some parts of the body end up with more 5AR than before and some with less. For example more in the prostate, and less in parts of the brain.
Both these types of imbalances could of course occur even if exposed to finasteride for only a very brief period of time (i.e. days). To find out of this is the cause of PFS one would have to know the 5AR-1 & 5AR-2 & DHT reference ranges for each of the individual different parts of the body where 5AR & DHT is located, and then measure the post-finasteride levels to see if there is any difference. Or ideally measure the levels pre-finasteride and then post-finasteride for a person that will suffer from PFS and see if there is any difference - but that’s hard to do since you don’t know who will get PFS beforehand and that person is not likely to want to take Propecia anyway… 
Sorry for the delay in writing back. I am seeing a GP but he is knowedgeble in this field. I see a nueroligist any day now. Endo’s say they cant help me and have infact refused to see me.
One thing the GP did say is that he belives everyone will have some form of Androgen Deprivation whilst on Procepia or after coming off, but it improves instantly for the majority. I was on procepia for 1.5 years, came off to have a baby and did not crash but thinking back was not as sexually interested as pre fin. I then went back on the drug 8 months later and stayed on for 7 month before coming off a 2nd time. This is when i crashed. My GP thinks that this time i added to the damage already inflicted first time around.
I belive and so does my GP that most men on procepia have some form of Androgen Deprivation that may worsen when coming off. The level of Androgen Deprivation determins if they crash (as we call it) but the term crash is one where the Androgen Deprivation is so bad if effects our lives. Most men have Androgen Deprivation on or after fin but to the point where they dont really notice it or they put it down to age or in denial. I would be interested to know how many notice a big difference coming off it a second time. I stongly belive fin damages everyone who is on it - but at different levels.
Loydds - one of the biggest pharmacys in the UK is now offering Procepia without prescription or consultation via their website and Boots the biggest UK chemist also prescribes this drug and had done for a long time. I think more and more men will be coming to this forum over time.
I disagree, purely because i cannot imagine anyone of any age not noticing there dick go numb and shrink, there sleep pattern become a mess and there brain become foggy etc etc. At the same time though, it is hard to believe we are some tiny minority? what are the chances?
This forum is not hard to find though, if you type in ‘propecia side effects’ which most people would who are on the medication and suddenly get side effects - this forum is in the top results all over the page.
thats sort of my point. We have symptoms so much worse than most but i bet everyone has some symptoms but maybe so few or mild they are not noticed
@first reply, I was able to open the link without any problem. Your internet security probably is a little too keen on tracking.
Put into consideration is Fina which is an ADS to reduce DHT. This as a whole is taken to be a treatment for prostate cancer as well.
Though I think I have to point out, not all who went through androgen deprivation recovers.