Random musings...

General Discussion
#1

I’m sitting here at work trying to figure out what natural treatments work/don’t work in recovering from any finasteride-related side effects. Maybe this should be in the natural treatments section – maybe not. Nevertheless, here are some things I’ve thought out:

  1. Broccoli = the phytochemical in it that’s produced when digested (DIM) is supposed to speed up drug metabolism and acts as a potent anti androgen, blocking DHT but increasing testosterone in the process, albeit through a different route than a drug like propecia. I’ve read about the broccoli treatment, but has anyone tried this? I started on the broccoli thing three or four weeks ago so we’ll see.

  2. Soy = I came across a couple websites (internationaldrugmart.com/proscar.html) that said soy isoflavones interact with Propecia and so does saw palmetto. I was on both while taking propecia, so maybe these had some sort of negative effect? Is it just the fact that soy has phytoestrogens (many foods do) and Propecia increases estrogen in men? Maybe I’m missing this but if Propecia blocks DHT, testosterone increases, so does estrogen increase b/c testosterone increases?

  3. Has anyone actually done the fasting and/or water diet for a few days or a week? Does this work?

  4. I’ve read grapefruits (and Seville oranges) taken while taking drugs can block the enzymes used to break down the drugs, accounting in a more potent amount of the drug in one’s body and leading to potentially more side effects. So if one took Propecia and ate grapefruits, would the Propecia just sit there in the body or would it pass through the body without doing its job?

  5. Anything I’m missing?

#2

Grapefruits are high in a flavonoid called Quercetin, which acts more or less like an antioxidant. However, because it inhibits the CYP3A4 enzyme, which is responsible for breaking down finasteride (and many many other substances), it causes there to be a higher concentration of propecia in the bloodstream. Effectively, because the drug is metabolized at a much slower rate due to the lack of CYP3A4 enzyme, there are higher amounts of finasteride for a longer time period. In other words, it increases the serum levels of finasteride.

So to answer your question, if one ate grapefruits (or other citrus fruits) daily (the more, the worse) while taking a finasteride drug, there would be hevaier concentrations in the body. Since Quercetin has a 17-24 hour half life in humans, it can theoretically allow for finasteride to stay in the body for increased amounts of time.

So, I (not being a licensed Medical Doctor, keep in mind), generally advise people steer clear of Quercetin or fruits high in Quercetin if they’re on any pharmaceutical, as it can cause potentially dangerous interactions. Nevertheless, if it’s the only supplement you are taking, and you are not using any other drugs or supplements (it evens interacts with Yohimbine), then I would suggest you try it out. After all, it does show anti-carcinogenic benefits and can help the prostate. Otherwise, the golden rule I like to follow is to ALWAYS RESEARCH WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR BODY.

Hope this helps.

#3

Do other citrus fruits have quercetin i.e. oranges and lemons?

Let me also add three other natural treatments that seem intriguing and hopefully someone can provide some insight from personal experience –

  1. Wild Mexican yam

  2. Yohimbine (as you mentioned)

  3. Horny goat weed.

#4

HGW is reviewed in Natural Supplements section. Do a search…

#5

Because oranges and lemons are citrus fruits, yes they do. Not as much as grapefruits, which can contain up to three times as much quercetin. Capers are the highest food in quercetin with about 1700 mg per kg.

As for wild mexican yam–I’ve never tried it.

Yohimbine works great. Great for energy also, and really great for erections and orgasm. Try this in combination with L-Arginine (3-4 grams). This can cause some wicked anxiety if you take it in high doses though, so be careful. DO NOT TAKE QUERCETIN WITH THIS.

Horny Goat Weed did NOTHING for me. I used it for about 3-4 weeks before I said “Wow, what a waste of fucking money.”

Hope this helps.

#6

L-arginine – I work out a lot and have seen this supplement quite a bit and if I’m not mistaken I believe it’s a precursor to nitric oxide (another supplement). Any comment on the worthiness of these?

#7

You know what man, that quercetin is in a bunch of foods I started up and included in my diet when I was told my hair was thinning in order to provide as many antioxidents as possible – red grapes, green tea, broccoli, citrus fruits, gingko biloba! Sure, I used to eat pretty good before I was told my hair was thinning by the dermatologist, but after that I started to eat all this stuff consistently or on a daily basis. I remember distinctly starting to drink green tea everyday right about the same time I started Propecia. On to something perhaps…

In addition to quercetin, grapefruits contain naringin, bergamottin, and dihydroxybergamottin, all which inhibit the protein isoform CYP3A4 predominantly in the liver.

#8

Yes… increasing NO leads to better blood flow. Better blood flow leads to better erections, better blood circulation, etc. It’s like a natural viagra.

It can’t hurt–as it’s just an amino acid (I take 4 grams daily).

#9

You’re confusing me now. What about the liver exactly? And you say Quercetin is a bunch of shit, but then something about other antioxidants? I don’t get the point of your message.

Yes grapefruits have other antioxidants–they’re rich in vitamin C, another anti-oxidant. Point being?

#10

Read it now. I made it a bit clearer.

#11

If Nitric Oxide comes from arginine, is it better to take arginine or nitric oxide? And since arginine is found in certain foods, why not just eat those more?