PFS artificially elevated testosterone similar to boron

General Discussion
#1

Have others experienced negative mental symptoms due to elevated testosterone after quitting Finasteride? This PFS feels very similar to chronic boron supplementation (anhedonia, loss of empathy, loss of emotion, short- and long-term memory impairment) which also elevated free testosterone. Recovery from that experience took a month or two but I was only taking boron for one month. Sublingual Fasoracetam, eating ketogenically, and fasting are what helped with recovery the most back then.

Given the similar negative adaptations by my brain during and following finasteride for 5 months, could this mean recovery might take 5 months as well? I wonder if there’s anything I can do to normalize those testosterone levels and why they might be resulting in the symptoms I’ve experienced? I think it might have something to do with a desensitization of the brain’s testosterone/dht receptors in response to chronically elevated testosterone (above baseline), so only after it comes back down and stays stable for a few months, will their sensitivity return to normal and thus the symptoms might improve.

Finasteride experience:
Introduction Post
STARTED ON: 03/15/20
QUIT ON: 08/15/2020
TREATMENT DURATION: 5 months
DOSE: 1mg oral Finasteride daily

Labs:
Abnormally elevated Testosterone without conversion to estrogen:
TESTOSTERONE ABNORMALLY HIGH ON: 09/09/20 (morning about a month later)
ZRT saliva test results:
Testosterone: 203 pg/mL
Normal range: 72-148 pg/mL (16-30 y/o)
Estradiol: 1.1 pg/ML
Normal range: 0.5-2.2 pg/mL
Progesterone: 52 pg/mL
Normal range: 12-100 pg/mL
hsCRP (blood spot): 0.3 mg/L
Normal range: <3 mg/L

#2

I had 895ng/dl in December and I feel better with lower testosterone

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#3

Hmm… what’s the normal range for your age in ng/dl?

#4

200-800ng/dl

Average testosterone is 400-500

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#5

I’m having trouble reading your E2 level. Is it really 1.1 pg/ml? Or some other unit? How come the normal range 0.5-2.2 pg/ml? Normally it’s like >10 pg/ml for men. Those who say men with E2 <10 pg/ml are considered normal are absolutely delusional! It’s widely accepted that women have 15-20X estrogen level of that in men. So range of 20-30 pg/ml is normal.

I can’t function normally if my level <20 pg/ml. One time it was crushed to like <10 pg/ml (from AI) and hell set loose! I had all the symptoms you described plus getting extremely dehydrated with cracking/painful joints and out of this world anxiety/depression. Took a long time to abate.

Studies aren’t conclusive on boron. Some report it increases T & lowers E2 and others report the opposite. I think it lowers E2 as well as SHBG.

#6

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Maybe it’s a confusion with units, ng/ml vs pg/ml or if not that, maybe it’s because it was determined through saliva not blood.

#7

Yep that’s E2 in pg/mL. Could be because it’s measured in saliva so lab ranges are different from those of serum (blood). I’ve been drinking a lot of green tea lately (decreases E2) and low E2 symptoms hit me today. The symptoms are very similar to the ones you’re describing. Funnily enough, I was talking to a friend of mine and had difficulty recalling names and words. My libido was lower than usual and felt disconnected from people. So yep those are classic low E2 symptoms for me. It gets worse the longer it stays low and as level goes lower.

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#8


These are the specifics on the ZRT saliva test, I dont think my levels are low. I’m guessing the difference is likely just because testosterone levels are lower in saliva than blood.

also, more explanation here (guess I’ll need a serum/blood test next time for better accuracy):

#9

In all honesty, I came across many TRT patients reporting that the only reliable E2 testing for men is the E2 sensitive assay. The standard test is for some reason inaccurate and is mostly designed for woman. That said, there’re other things that may be behind your symptoms. Try and look for any abnormalities/outliers.

#10

Ronnie99 and my self have high amounts of testosterone in our urine. Maybe we pee out high amounts of androgens because when they bind to the receptors they make us feel like shit

#11

how long did you use boron and what brand?