Here you go mate two positive stories from the past 48 hours
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Both of these guys previous regular forum members both came back to this forum especially to pass on this information it doesn’t get more positive than this mate.
If you read the first story theirs even mention of another former member Tigershull
Now this man has my upmost respect he didn’t sit here tapping keys moaning and groaning he made a HUGE effort in telling the world of his issues caused by finasteride he’s been on TV and created his own website.
Guess what TRT has been the key reason he isn’t here now this guy had some serious side effects probably one of the worst cases I’ve come across it’s fantastic news hearing that he’s back on track living a normal happy life.
He didn’t achieve this guessing he tried all the guess work all the protocols he threw the stab in the dark approach out the window and went back to the medical world.
I know you and others reading this post have probably read many negative reports concerning TRT , DOCTORS , THE MEDICAL WORLD etc but it doesn’t mean that we all have to throw the towel in wave the white flag and give up that was their experience not ours its up to each of us to try everything possible for ourselves with as much professional guidance as possible.
Look at this way if these guys didn’t try it they wouldn’t be posting these stories of success they would still be here wondering what the hell to do next what to try next.
I’m shamefully as guilty as the next guy in previously being negative of doctors giving up on doctors and using the trial and error stab in the dark approach with supplements and black market hormone modifying drugs let me tell you its got me nowhere and ive spoken to plenty of other guys doing the same arm chair science self help protocols i.e trt without blood test etc and its all failed barely helped at all or made them worse . I’m done with this blind approach we need medical assistance blood test pharmaceutical grade drugs and professional help this is the only way to be 100% sure of anything.
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Great post Bak. I did a lot of expirementing (I.e clomid reset or sarms and literally thousands on supplements) before I bit the bullet with TRT. If you go down the TRT path give it at least 4 months because the start is bumpy at first but you will feel like a 18yo rock star around week 6) I now preach TRT to every man I meet because it saved my life. If you can get it, ask for the injectable version of T along with HCG. HCG keeps your balls working and makes you feel better. (Just say you may want children or more children and they will give you HCG).
Inject the testosterone into your fat. Google “dr crisler trt” and follow his method. The whole trt process Is just a long road to find where your sweet spot is. I’m at 130mg (43mg spread into 3 separate shots a week). Some people enjoy 2 a week better. I studied all this for 6 months before starting so if you ever have any questions, shoot me a message.
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Thanks for the encouragement, mate! I really needed it.
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What kind of benefits you get from this? Are you recovered fron sexual symptoms? Are you still on TRT?
Trt is a life long decision however if taken with HCG injections it can be stopped. Taking trt shuts down your normal testosterone factory and hcg keeps it going. If you stop trt it will take 6 weeks to be back to original baseline (many do it to have chilldren but it’s not fun going off of T as your levels will drop)
I can’t list all the benefits. Confidence. Strong erections. Mental prowess. I feel like I own the world. I get spontaneous erections like I did when I was 15. I can feel my penis more. I wake up with an erection like when I was 16. I will never stop trt. I’ve been on it over a year and it’s changed every aspect of my life.
Don’t expect one shot of testosterone to fix your problems. Do your own research. It takes weeks to even feel a difference. Amazingly you can inject a ton of T into your system and it will take weeks before you notice the change. Read my other post … if you go down the trt path, give it 6 months and educate yourself.
Most men think testosterone is the holy grail to sexual prowess. It is not. It’s actualy the ratio of estrogen to your testosterone. As you will find out on testosterone you have to watch your estrogen. Too much and you feel bad … too little estrogen and I feel like a car hit me and my penis becomes the size of a tadpole with no feeling. If your estrogen truly is low and causing your problems then you would be immediately different 2-3 weeks after a few injections. Your problem may be that your testosterone is too high to get a prescription. You could find a endocrinologist wiling to just give you HGC which will increase your estrogen a little along with T. You could also try low dose clomid (you can find all these out in the web if you go to body building websites) clomid is oral
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Found this on one of those cookie cutter HRT sites but it had studies to back up the benefits. Thought id post it
Benefits of Restoring T to Optimal Levels
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Improve memory - Testosterone supplementation may increase working memory in men.
Janowsky J et al. Sex steroids modify working memory J Cogn Neurosci 2000 May;12(3):407-14 -
Reduce Alzheimer’s Risk - Testosterone restoration may reduce the risk of Alzheimer’s Disease by preventing the production of beta amyloid precursor protein.
Gouras GK et al. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Feb 1;97(3):1202-5 -
Improve cognitive function - Testosterone levels correlate with cognitive function.
Hormones and Behavior 1998; 33(2):85-94 and the J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1999 Oct;84(10):3681-5 -
TRT can help alleviate depression.
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Testosterone restoration is more effective than antidepressants for depression
Am J Psychiatry 157:1884, November 2000 and Androl 1992 Jul-Aug;13(4):297-304 -
Many patients are able to stop Antidepressants after being treated with testosterone
Geriatr Psychiatry Neurol 2000 Summer;13(2):93-101 -
Restore lost muscle and Decrease Body fat - Testosterone increases lean muscle and decreases fat mass.
J Endocrinol 2001 Jul;170(1):27-38 -
Lower Risk of Heart Disease by 60% - Bringing testosterone from low normal to high normal lowers the risk for heart disease by 60%.
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Aug 2002. Vol. 87, No. 8 3632-3639. -
Increase lifespan - Low testosterone linked to long-term risk of death in relatively healthy adult men. This study is another major report linking testosterone deficiency in relatively healthy men with increased death from all causes over time.
ENDO 2007: The Endocrine Society Research Summaries Book June 5, 2007. -
Enhance Sexual Performance and Libido - Two-year study of the effects of low dose testosterone on men’s libido. 82% of men noticed improvement compared to less than 10% in the control group.
Clinical Endocrinogy and Metabolism 1997. -
Defy Statistics - In one of the largest studies of its kind, this study shows a decline in American men’s testosterone levels during the last 20 years. The decrease is not related to normal aging or to health and lifestyle factors known to influence testosterone levels. Testosterone concentrations dropped about 1.2% per year from 1987 to 2004, or about 17% overall. The downward trend was seen in both individuals and the entire population over time.
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 2007. 92:196-202. -
Achieve Optimal Performance - Testosterone Improves Sexual Function, Mood, Muscle Strength and Body Composition Parameters in Hypogonadal Men. Subjects did not exercise, yet their lean body mass and fat mass improved. Improvement was correlated with serum level of Testosterone obtained. Study showed that these benefits were not, however, obtained with testosterone patches (which are too weak for most patients).
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Increase Energy - Low testosterone levels is associated with fatigue. Using testosterone restoration increases one’s sense of well being. Many patients were also able to stop using antidepressants after testosterone restoration.
Geriatr Psychiatry Neurol 2000 Summer;13(2):93-101. -
Speed up healing - Testosterone restoration speeds healing and results in shortens hospital stays.
I just did some blood tests for the first time since I got PFS almost three years ago. I have low DHT, high Free Testosterone and high Progesterone.
Anyone else has similar results?
| Test | Measure | Unit | Reference | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| DHT | 175* | pg/ml | 300-850 | |
| Testosteron free | 29.27* | pg/ml | 7.0 - 22.7 | |
| Progesterone | 0.783* | nmol/l | <0.474 | |
| 17 - OH progesterone | 1.17 | ng/ml | <1.39 | |
| Androstanediol-glucuronide | 419 | ng/dl | 168 - 3530 | |
| Pregnenolone-17-Hydroxy | 292 | ng/dl | 30.0 - 350 | |
| Prolactin | 107.3 | mIU/L | M 86 - 324 | |
| LH | 4.3 | mIU/ml | М 1.7 - 8.6 | |
| FSH | 2.5 | mIU/ml | M 1.5 - 12.4 | |
| Testosterone | 21.45 | nmol/l | 9.90 - 27.80 | |
| DHEA-S | 149.4 | µg/dl | 88,9 - 427 | |
| Estradiol | 80.41 | pmol/l | 41.40 - 159.00 | |
| Androstenedione | 7.70 | nmol/l | М 2.1 - 10.8 | |
| SHBG | 33.4 | nmol/l | 14.5-48.4; | |
| FT 3 (Free Т3) | 4.6 | pmol/l | 3.20 - 6.80 | |
| FT 4 (Free Т4) | 14.37 | pmol/l | 12.00 - 22.00 | |
| TSH | 1.26 | mIU/l | 0.300 - 4.200 |
@Dubya_B
Have a question. if the 5ar is impaired, does it allow androgens to accumulate in excess, because they cannot be converted to their further active form. For example
progesterone ---->5ar —> DHP
Free testosterone ----->5ar —> DHT
Sibelio have both of these elevated and 5ar is responsible for their convertion.
On the other hand there are many PFS people who have normal DHT levels with all the same ED symptoms.
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That’s a very good question. I would love to know the answer as well. We know that Testosterone rises when people take finasteride…
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Yes. It’s entirely possible.
As @Sibelio pointed out, a similar effect can be seen with T rising while 5-ar is being inhibited with finasteride.
I also have had tests where T was high, free T was very high, and DHEA-S was very high. Some of these results were obtained during periods when I wasn’t undertaking any sort of treatment. Stimulation of T production with SERMs resulted in a drastic increase of T and E2, while DHT actually dropped.
The thing is, there was no correlation between symptoms and hormone levels for me, and many others with this condition have noted the same. The only time I have was during an “almost recovery” lasting a day that occurred around a week after stopping a short course of clomiphene. I attribute this to a suspected decrease in androgens from high levels to normal levels.
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I am thinking of trying a DHT cream. I know I could get worse, and I will certainly lose my hair, but I am desperate and ready to try anything. I tried to find any long term success stories with DHT creams but it was not easy. Do you know if they exist?
So I think my PFS symptoms are most likely not caused by low DHT, but rather low DHT is the result of whatever is causing the PFS symptoms (such as epigentic changes of many genes but perhaps the 5a-reductase encoding gene as well).
I don’t think low DHT is the cause because during my Finasteride use my DHT levels were no doubt also very low but I did not have any PFS symptoms (except the slowly shrinking penis, which I think is a standard DHT-deprivation therapy symptom).
In other words, I don’t have much hope I will reverse my PFS symptoms by DHT supplementation but I should still probably try.
Hey Sibelio,
You HAVE to try TRT, specially the TRT cream (not gels or patches). I took accutane and had all your issues, exactly the same, although the mechanism of actions are different there are many similarities between Finasteride and Accutanne. Anyway, I started TRT (injections) about 5 years ago, with mixed results, feeling very well first few months and then not that great (but still better than pre-TRT). Along the way I learned I had to control my E2 to feel good but still was not having the results I expected and also E2 is very hard to control. I tried the Testosterone Cream a few months ago, and it was WHAT I NEEDED. At first I was scared because all my hopes were put in that cream, and the first few weeks I did not feel any different from it, but I kept trying. Then after a few weeks my libido came back, cannot say it is raging libido, but it is very good I would say maybe 9 on scale of 1-10 and it has been like that for 3 weeks. When I went to the Doctor, I had “normal” DHT, just in the middle of the range, but still no libido, and the cream shoots the DHT super high. With that high DHT levels I can have great sex. But I have also been very disciplined in avoiding masturbation and porn as I believe that helps a lot too. Anyway, there is something weird in people affected by accutane or PFS that maybe “normal” DHT levels does not cut it. Maybe we need more than high DHT levels. I have not had any hair loss and have gotten some mild acne, but I am actually HAPPY every time I see acne on my face cause I know it is the DHT working, and there is high correlation in me between acne and libido (again because the DHT). Dont worry about your hair, would you not trade your hair for a normal sex drive, energy and motivation in life? - Besides, look at the so many people that are very successful and masculine that are bald, like the rock, Jason statham, Vin Diesel, etc.
Final word of advice, be mentally prepared if this does not work, I think PFS 5ARs are much more damaged than those who took accutane, specially the one that is in the prostate that converts T to DHT there. If TRT or the cream does not work dont lose hope, I am sure they will come up with something. I can relate to your lack of motivation, for me, not having libido caused me severe depression, and even though I still keep working towards goals and improve day after day, it has been extremely difficult, I would say I have been functioning at around 30% all these years. And as of today, I am maybe 70% energy wise, but will try to start working out and eat better. I wont ever settle for anything that is not 8-9 out of 10 on energy, libido and cognitive function.
I highly recommend Defy Medical in Florida if you can afford. They are like $2,000 a year with consults, labs, medications, etc, but to me is worth every penny. There are many other clinics that may be cheaper.
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Could you speak to what symptoms you and and what your T level was that made you take the trt and cream? @diablo6666
Use the search feature for: androgel, a topically applied TRT.
It has been tried many times before, but it’s always good to hear of successful cases.
symptoms I had before TRT and MOST of the time while on TRT on injections. No Libido, ED, Fatigue, sleepiness, blurry vision, dry eyes, dry skin, lack of motivation, brain fog, low concentration, depression (sometimes) and moodiness.
With T Cream, I noticed a real improvement on libido/ED (although I am still on Cialis just in case). But have not had any ED issues. My other symptoms improved, but I feel like I still need to get leaner to feel even better, because right now I have too much estrogen.
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My understanding is that the cream works much better than the gels, you must apply it on the scrotum. If I am correct that androgel is a gel is it not?
Anyway, again, I may not have PFS, but the fact that I had all those issues persistent after trying so many different things, makes me realize the T cream is a real MUST-TRY at least.
I have sensed some hesitation on TRT due to a lot of reported failures, but let me tel you one thing, there are a lot of guys in the TRT forums, that even though they dont have PFS, they have a hard time getting optimized to the point of feeling good, because it is a very complex process, some people have more challenges than others. Some people feel great right at the beginning, some after 4 weeks, some after 6 months, and some others like me, it has taken years to find a good protocol, I am still not finished, but I am not sure what I could do without TRT. I think at least is worth giving it a shot.
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Did you ever forget what you were thinking, like 30 seconds ago, and if so how much did it improve? As well, the blurry and dry eyes… improve slightly or significantly?