My view on PFS and hits and misses in 7 years

Hey folks,

I decided to post this here, it may help new members. These are my theories and how i dealt with these problems in almost 8 years. I had two full complete recoveries, one from October 2010 to March 2011 and the second one from Jan 2012 to November 2012.
Unfortunately i have acid reflux disease and allergies (some foods and medication) after propecia. I would not have crashed if it weren t these issues and the need to take medication. I would be having a normal life as i was when recovered. So these ideas may help someone recover and stay recovered. I am going to update this thread gradually, i intend to post all my ideas about PFS here.

First part, THEORIES:

Crash

My theory on why we crash - Our bodies get depleted in GABA and the capacity to rebalance GABA levels. The central nervous system needs GABA and allopregnanolone to work properly. So when we go under a stressful situation, the nervous system is put into pressure, and because it is lacking GABA, it gets inflammation. This inflammation is an attempt of the body to heal the extreme lack of GABA (a condition totally unnatural to occur). To counter act the inflammation, the body shoots cortisol way up. Cortisol is the natural body defense against inflammation. The result is the symptoms we all know, insomnia, nervousness, etc… If nothing is done, this state will linger indefinitely, improving in some, worsing in others over time.
The state of crash burns much more neurotransmitters, which leads to depression, because we are burning them fast and not restocking at the same pace. However, If the cause of the inflammation is not resolved, the inflammation continues. If you take a corticoid steroid at that time, in an attempt to stop inflammation, you ll make things worse by adding more cortisol to the crash (gasoline on a fire). By taking a tranquilizer, you address the cause of the inflammation, and the body stops the reaction.

Hit
To come out of the crash fast - I ve always taken a tranquilizer- benzodiazepine. First time Bromazepam (2006), Second crash Alprazolam (2011), and third crash Clonazepam(2012) (the reason i need to switch medications is because if i use the same again the risk of allergies is high for me).
Every time, all the symptoms of the crash reversed fast, including penis shrinkage, when i took a benzodiazepine. Depression slowly improved as i was not burning neurotransmitters so fast.

Miss
One problem is to know for how long and the dosage to use of these drugs. On the second crash i took Alprazolam a little too long and felt my adrenals got weaker, which have not reversed. So the point here is to say that i believe restoring GABA is the best way of ending a crash fast - problem is the side effects if you need to do this often.

So my strategy was trying to preserve myself the most i could, to avoid taking any drugs. As i had a great struggle with acid reflux disease after Propecia, i had to take Omeprazole in 2011, which made me crash immediately.

In my case, i have crashed so far for these reasons:
Stop Propecia use,
Prescription medication (Omeprazole and Bromazepam one time),
Allergy reaction to some food,
Stressful situation

To be continued soon…

1 Like

Be careful with Benzodiazepine it can really mess people up

youtube.com/watch?v=XWKPPSuf8W4

Over all i had a good experience with them. The only one i would not recommend is Clonazepam. The other two were pretty easy to taper off, and took me out of the crash. The problem is, we, having PFS, need to avoid medications the most we can.

The times you recovered did it just happen naturally over time or did you trigger it with something?

Correovip, I’ve had PFS for 8+ years and have came to the same conclusion. Lack of protective neurosteroids revved up our bodied to high and we experienced a CNS crash…which then causes adrenal issues…which then completely wacks out the hormonal system. I’ve read too many stories from ppl who had major anxiety or stress breakdowns or major overtraining breakdowns that end up w similar PFS states.

Is their any point in taking it if all your PFS problems are physical ?

It was a mix of a natural approach (exercise, diet, lots of rest, good sleep, time to heal, no stress at all) and a few medications for a short period of time (a benzodiazepine and a few years later, prednisone short term - 5 days). I will describe everything on this thread, i will put in steps how to do it. I think some people can replicate it. It is a lot of work, and a lot of details. Sorry i can t describe everything today. I am not saying i know how to cure it, or there are no risks in my protocol. I just think it is useful to post this protocol here, as i was able to have two long periods of recovery (and only lost them due to allergies, which many guys here dont have).

Exactly!

This is BS imo. Any theory that doesn’t include androgens as the central cause and problem is totally redundant. Nothing else explains all the sides, I’m prolly gonna post about this in more detail soon.

You could be correct, but there is not any proof either way. Hopefully if you are correct, the “studies” will show this.

However, the Dopamine issues which the recent Italy studies showed could easily explain the sexual issues.

There are a few things on the androgen receptor / reflex theory that I do not understand…if you can answer them then please enlighten me (not being a dick - would love serious discussion on it)

(1) Guy with hypogonadism
(1) Guy taking Finasteride

Both guys should have low androgens and a similar sensitivity to androgens at this point.

Guy with hypogonadism then starts TRT, he will experience a “flood” of androgens back into his system.
Guy taking Finasteride stops taking it. He experiences a “flood” of androgens back into his system.

Why is it that guy #1 NEVER gets PFS from this, but according to the “androgen PFS theory”…guy #2 does?

Also, many people developed PFS while STILL ON finasteride. In that case, how do you explain the androgen sensitivity/ reflex crash? It doesnt fit.

Not to mention the fact that Dr Irwig, Goldstein, Mariano, and Crisler ALL have said that theory just does not work in their minds.

Again, not trying to “hate” just hoping that you or someone else could explain that all to me?

This is a false analogy fallacy and even if it weren’t, it wouldn’t be true anyway. Awor already covered this: viewtopic.php?p=18902#p18902

The good news is that we don’t have to theorize anymore. If you really want to know the root cause of PFS, plan a trip to a U.S megalopolis to be a patient/subject in a study. Start planning ASAP.

They rather waist money on parasites and infections. Sign me up!!!

I know you’re not trying to hate, and you seem to have a reasonable grasp of the core problem generally. I’m not scientifically minded at all so I can’t explain the process at work but I’ve had this four years and read enough about both our issues and those of low T and other hormone issues to recognise a dead end when I see one. Trying to pin this on some mechanism involving cortisol, GABA, dopamine, 5AR2 or whatever doesn’t come close to explaining the mess we find ourselves in. These problems simply don’t lead to massive muscle wastage, overnight dramatic changes to genital structure and all the symptoms of low/no testosterone and what’s more they wouldn’t then be unresponsive to treatment. Comparing us to hypogonadal men is also apples and oranges in this instance as they didn’t take an anti-androgen; what’s more I would say our sides are on average a lot worse than someone having low testosterone issues, as I have rarely if ever seen them suffering complete impotence, massive shrinkage, severe muscle loss etc.

imagine what would happen if an important neurosteroid was instantly wiped out of your body.

We do not need to theorize anymore? Nothing has been published or announced that would make anybody assume that. If you know something I don’t then…GOOD NEWS.

I would love to participate in the studies, but I am a SP victim plus have been on TRT and would be disqualified.

Thank you for actually addressing my question. Please read the long quote at the bottom of my post…taken from Bill Roberts book.

I will have you know, that I and a few other members who you would call “parasite quacks” were the ones who originally go Dr Bhasin and Harvard Med. interested in PFS. We bugged his ass monthly to keep pushing for research.

Thanks for adding to the discussion though. Your work is amazing! :wink:


Only sources from peer-reviewed articles are valid.

As I said, we don’t need to theorize anymore. Don’t do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

Unverified claim:

.

Verified claim:

Bhasin is full of bullshit

https://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843.2009.00439.x