My miserable experience with propecia - numb to life

Member Stories
#21

The week before thanksgiving I was really busy and didn’t have time to properly work out/eat. Thanksgiving the same but I ate fairly well lots of Turkey and Sweet Potatoes. Was very active mb’ing 2 times a day for about three days. Now it’s shrunk again and I haven’t done anything in the last 5 days. Feels like the whole body isn’t swelling to proper size but I’m retaining water in midsection and face.

I’m gonna start working out again hard and eating properly this weekend (though I’m moving to be with my fiance in Russia). I hope everything will work out. The last time this happened it took three weeks before I was feeling semi-normal. I do think though that the diet has a lot to do with it…as much as working out right now but they go hand in hand because if I don’t workout I cant eat much. Plus the last couple weeks I’ve only had to go number 2 every 3 days or so. Basically that part of my body stops processing foods. Or it doesn’t get there. Thinking I have kidney problems now seriously :frowning:

I’m going to by some tyrosine today along with a massive vit-d supp to try over the next month with exercise/diet.

#22

Boston: I started taking the supp (500 mg) and I do notice a huge difference in mood. I’m trying it slowly to start once a day with meals. It was also coming in at .6 g in my protein supplement.

On another note I think the L-Arginine (Nitros Oxide precurser) may be helping too when I take it directly after the workout so it gets direct uptake in the muscles. It’s also in the protein supp at .5 g.

Unfortunately because I haven’t worked out much I’m having less than spectacular experience in the erection department. Hopefully this goes away once I get in some serious exercise…

#23

late jumping in here, but wanted to add my own amen to this. I always loved sports, and after fin, while I could still push myself, it just wasn’t the same…I also had never been injured (seriously) in my life, then a year post fin I injured my knee and had to have surgery, then two years later started having issues with my back.(not saying the two are definitely correlated, but…) I used to play a lot of tennis, and now I find I’m losing to guys I used to beat hands down. The drive to win is gone.
Useless addition I know, but just wanted to bitch. Also, I used to love to watch boxing and used to identify with the agressor, and the charge they get from winning (beating the crp out of someone). Now, all I can think of is, “Jesus, that looks like it hurt!”
Do unics ever naturally grow their balls back?
ill keep my fingers crossed.

#24

L-Tyrosine improved mood and overall feeling temporarily, but after a week I wished I hadn’t taken it at all. Direct negative after-effect.

L-Arginine 500mg was taken two days ago and I’ve noticed the following: increased penis size and also balls + sac are a bit fuller and hang lower. Effect has carried on for two days. Last night I had a normal erection and feeling though still abnormal ejaculate. Erection did not go away immediately after climax. I’m going to wait a while before taking the next dose as the effects seem to be lasting still and I don’t want to become numb to it. Vivid dreams accompanied sleep but they weren’t good dreams and I’m still exhausted. Muscles still weaker than they should be.

I’ll update further when I know more.

#25

Update: I am still getting results from L-Arganine however they have tapered significantly. I take it no more than once a week.

VITAMIN D: this is an update. I was taking a minor Vitamin D supp with no results. 400IU. I upped the Vitamin D to 2,000 - 15,000 IU / day, mostly closer to 2,000 as I would often forget to take it. Reading the recent posts in the forum on Vitamin D I decided to up my dose to 15,000-20,000 for a week, my bloods have consistently shown low Vit D. Almost immediately I noticed a HUGE positive change. My balls doubled in size, as did my penis. Most notably, my penis weighed more, it felt solid again, normal again, the erections were hard again. I did not have a major increase in libido but felt like having sex 2 times a day. This change extended to my body and my face, the excess fat/water weight disappeared and I was more energetic, masculine, and my moods were less insecure. Also, my body held water properly. I didn’t have to piss every 30 minutes. Though I admit the never sensations didn’t always signal that my bladder was full even though it was. In conjunction with the Vitamin D I drank a lot of whole milk for calcium and ate 2 eggs a day for minerals in addition to my standard diet.

The change held about 4 days. Then started to taper off and now I’m back closer to where I started.

Here are the links to 3 pertinent Vitamin D threads:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =vitamin+d
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … sc&start=0
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3523

#26

I’m surprised the change didn’t stay. I’m still having positive results after the past month of supplementing 15000 iu.

#27

Disappointed is more like it… :frowning:

#28

prelox.com/html/
What do you think of this L-Arginine supplement? My doc gave it to me, but I haven’t yet dared to take it. Would you take it?
Of course I immediately searched the Internet for permanent side effects, but all I see are some head aches and many people just have zero response. Or is the negative info just hidden carefully in the spaces of Google?

#29

I do not have experience with “Pycnogenol” but it doesn’t read bad from the marketing standpoint. They say it’s a plant extract.

pycnogenol.com/consumer/

However the marketing materials for Fin didn’t read anywhere close to the truth…and saw palmetto is a plant extract too…

Someone has a lot of money invested in it…

#30

Update: I have been doing pretty well the last 4 months. My biggest problem is fatigue and lack of interest in everything and lack of muscle tightness. The muscles, if I do a repeated or long activity like sitting in front of the computer just stretch and get stuck. Other than this I have been living low stress and been able to have sex, sometimes twice a day, sometimes not for a week, during this time. I’m happy that I respond most of the time when I need to, fluctuating between 65%-85% of pre-fin size/hardness levels. Here are some tips I’ve posted on someone else’s thread, I’m putting them here in case anyone else wants to follow what’s helping me the most.

Get off your ass, go for walks, start small bursts of exercise and weight training. Bit by bit, 5 minutes at a time if your not already working out. Keep workouts under 45 minutes to avoid cortisol buildup. I started skateboarding which is the one thing I’m enjoying now.

Stay off sugar, caffeine, white bread, pasta, etc. Try the paleo diet, meat and vegetables, especially red meat every other day, steak. It has natural L-Arganine in it. No alcohol.

Try taking L-Arginine caps before bed, both Mew and I get positive relaxation/sleep response and I get a fuller penis. I only take it max one time a week in 500 mg caps.

Don’t sit on the computer and look at porn for long periods of time. This burns up my libido. If you want to masturbate, then do it but do it quickly and not often. If you have the option spend time with women, around them, let your body react to their presence. Replace all porn with this. I would even hire a hooker if I needed just to get your body a chance to react to female hormones again.

High doses of Vitamin D help but there is a honeymoon period of about 4 days and then results drop off drastically.

If you’re not sleeping well try melatonin. Don’t take too often or too much though. I find very small doses help the best, such as .5 mg. Sleep is where we recover hormones the most.

FYI I still have periods of extreme shrinkage, normal function, no libido, rare periods of high libido. Sometimes I feel during sex, most often I feel little to nothing. The act of sex, the movements, allow the best workout for the penis/prostate muscles. I have a long-term girlfriend so i have access almost always. I have had periods of bad shrinkage for up to a month, make sure to moisturize, vitamin E oil (pure) helped the best. I don’t have gyno but I do have slight feminine fat deposits on the face, belly and mb chest. It’s not as masculine as it once was. Keep at the gym to regulate.

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#31

Here’s a follow up from my thyroid/adrenal/kidney natural treatment options from the quoted post at the bottom of this one:

  1. Iodide/Iodine supplementation: small amounts have a very strong reaction. I smeared a small amount on the upper inner arm, about 1 in x 1 in, and left it overnight. The next morning, though going to bed late, I woke up early, with bright eyes and enough energy to not feel tired while doing small things like washing dishes. I smeared another patch of iodine on my arm and in approximately 2 hours I got a spontaneous erection from minor visual stimulation. The erection was short lived but throbbing in quality. Later I tried another patch which was too much, I got a resting heart rate of close to 75 when normal is below 60 and pain in my chest and left arm which signals strain on the heart.

  2. Low cortisol: I have no way to try supplementing cortisol yet.

  3. Low aldosterone: It is recommended for salt wasting (see below) to drink a glass of water with 1/4 to 1/2 tablespoon sea salt twice a day. This is to balance out salt/potassium in the body because the kidneys push all salt out. I tried this before bed and did have more energy, however I woke up with a swollen face and dry eyes.

I seem to be very sensitive to iodine/iodide. When I take it I feel all is almost right for a little while, then I get rapid heart beat and get tired. Hypothyroid sufferers can be sensitive to thyroid supplementation. They get hyperthyroid symptoms from very low doses of thyroid meds, similar to what I get from iodine supplementation. Some have benefit from either drinking salt water for salt wasting or supplementing the synthetic aldosterone for proper blood pressure regulation and salt/potassium balance which then allows them to increase the thyroid meds for the best possible outcome.

I think I overdid iodine supplementation and maybe had too much salt. I’m going to try just salt today and give iodine a break for a few days. This signals to me that I need to get blood tests one way or another because there is obviously a strong imbalance.

My theory is that given the thyroid responds to iodine I am probably deficient (slow metabolism). However the thyroid needs additional help to work, nutrients need to get to cells and the right balance of electrolytes need to be struck, so cortisol and aldosterone need to be tested. Given that I respond to the iodine and salt supplementation, cortisol may be a/the missing link. Also, given how JN is responding to thyroid supplementation, it could be that other hormones such as testosterone need to be added in, more fuel for the cells in which the thyroid can metabolize.

I am intolerant of all temperature extremes, I used to love heat.

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4111

#32

Update to my progress. I’m still taking sea salt though about half as much, tossing just a little in the water I drink. I think my body was very deficient and now its better after the weather cooled down a bit. Iodine is another story.

So, with iodine previously, I had temporary success.

Clear, focused thinking
Fuller harder erections
Feeling when orgasming
Improved muscle strength and development
Strong eyesight with clearer eyes
Psoriasis begins to clear up
Proper functioning digestive system

I think the latter is the most important. Usually I can’t defecate more than once a day, sometimes it goes for 3 day stretches when I don’t. I get bloated and piss more. With iodine shortly after taking it, within 20 minutes, I get movement and my balls suck in like they used to before orgasm or when normally on the can. Then I don’t have to piss much. Once the air is gone from my stomach I feel much better.

The success has waned in the same manner a stimulant is too much for me, so I think I’ve either overdone the iodine, which isn’t likely due to the minor amounts I’ve been taken since the initial positive burst, or I have another problem. What’s really surprising to me is after starting to feel down after iodine brain fog came back. I haven’t had it for a long time, but I’ve also lowered my stress level. It didn’t last long, but for me it’s tied to both stress and iodine, too much of either and it slaps me in the face.

The few ideas I have that I’m pursuing are:

  1. An overabundance of RT3 created by fueling the thyroid with iodine, which blocks the action of T3, the active thyroid hormone - JN is solving this problem with T3 supplementation
  2. Insufficient cortisol production, which when thyroid function is boosted cortisol cannot keep up, both are needed for metabolism
  3. Insufficient additional hormones such as T - boosted thyroid function may consume this hormone faster than I can produce - if I confirm the thyroid issue this treatment will be later as many report balanced hormones after getting their hypothyroidism corrected.

Aldosterone imbalance is still very likely.

#33

My results with kelp tapered also.
I got hair test back today and showed really low sodium, no suprise?

#34

Tim, I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t find low sodium surprising, especially if you have more energy when you take sea salt.

#35

This is a follow up to JN’s post in his member story about the damage theory of finasteride and the thyroid. I relate to this the most of any explanation of what happened to me.

  1. I went through an intense physiological stress.
  2. I missed the feeling of rush that cortisol would provide as time went on and I wore down, I was an action junkie and very competitive and athletic before.
  3. I felt as if I wasn’t surviving, making my body work harder. There was emotional stress from this along with physiological, making the latter that much worse.
  4. I’m 1/4 Irish and come from a line of people that fled west in the US at the beginning of the 1900s. My grandfather was Irish and I take the most after him in behavior tendencies, hair loss, etc. I think I have a good chance of having the ‘overactive’ survival mechanism.
  5. I have low vitamin D.
#36

Martin, Are you taking any Vit D3 supplements? I know it’s not the answer for everything, but no question it did help me. I take 25,000 iu per day. The last blood test I had done showed a good jump in my D levels.

#37

Yes, I had the honeymoon effect with vitamin D and then it tapered after a few days. I still take Vit D, 10,000 - 20,000 IU/day.

#38

Tracking my temps with BTMon, an iphone app and digital thermometer. Average has been 97(36.1) so far, with afternoon temps reaching 97.6 as a high-water mark and 96.5 as low water mark. Will continue to track. At one point after getting sick I got to 98.6 for a couple hours and felt tops, never better, until the temp dropped, linking again feeling good/recovered to immune response.

#39

Havnt other people said they felt good when they are sick ie thier temperature rises

#40

Other people have felt better when they’ve been ill, but I’m not sure if they checked or posted info about their temp.

On another note, I’ve really reduced sea salt intake. It gives me energy but also seems to aggravate me, my moods were getting pretty aggressive. I think I was really low during the heat this summer so I need much less now that the weather is cooler. Russia went from over 100 F to 50 F in two weeks.

I’ve also stopped taking iodine. It has a positive effect and can get me to 100% however regardless of what I do it wears me out over the long term. I’m recovering now but am having the worst ED problems I’ve had since last taking it. Cannot wait to get the full thyroid, cortisol, aldosterone, and hormone tests done.