Molecular Study Results

[dgreene]

So the consensus from the molecular study is that some sort of negative auto-regulation is at play. Why this is persistent is what the 2nd study will tell us.

But, one suspect is epigenetic changes. What makes most sense, to me at least, is that we have varying degrees of gene silencing caused by histone de-acetylation. Acetylation causes histone chromatin to unwind and thus for genes to be expressed. I was wondering if people would be willing to try out various HDAC inhibitors to see if this helps our condition.

For one thing, I’m very curious as to whether Nystatin (which helped IHP recover) is a HDAC inhibitor and I’m still trying to get my hands on some. I’m thinking that maybe the super high doses of Nystatin IHP took caused acetylation that turned on silenced genes again. Or…maybe the healthy lifestyle allowed his body to revert back to normal gene expression (through same mechanism).

[BP7667]

@dgreene

So the consensus from the molecular study is that some sort of negative auto-regulation is at play. Why this is persistent is what the 2nd study will tell us.

But, one suspect is epigenetic changes.

Um, as far as I know (and I am pretty active on this site and research into the matter as well as being a contributor to the study) this whole study is based around looking at epigenetic changes already. To be more precise epigenetic changes to the genes that control AR expression and regulation. As far as the 2nd study judging but Awor has said, it is to identify the specific gene’s that have been altered.

While I appluad your enthusiaism about trying to be cured. Suggesting people try to self medicate further without knowing directly what you are trying to accomplish is foolish. When we may only be months or a year away from having much of this mystery unfolded why risk harming yourself further by shooting in the dark with a potential fix when things may become much clearer in the near future.

[Oscar]

@dgreene

So the consensus from the molecular study is that some sort of negative auto-regulation is at play. Why this is persistent is what the 2nd study will tell us.

Where are you getting this information?

The firt study can only have been a test of gene expression to see if androgens where working. The results of this test must have shown normal gene expression, else ‘awor’ would have said something.

At no point has he said there is a consensus in the way you describe. In fact its very difficult to follow what he is saying. If I can decipher anything at all from awor’s posts its that hes still looking for something that shows negative-autoregulation. But this was not evident from the first study.

[BP7667]

The firt study can only have been a test of gene expression to see if androgens where working. The results of this test must have shown normal gene expression, else ‘awor’ would have said something.

Umm, he did.

As I have already mentioned in earlier posts, our initial pilot study has found a definite problem at the AR level, which basically confirms what we are seeing clinically. Given these results, we are not wondering anymore what possibly could be causing this, but rather are now focused on trying to understand the precise genes and epigenetic mechanisms involved in creating this persistent syndrome. This understanding is a prerequisite for thinking about cures and assessing curability.

And he also spoke of them looking into epigenetic causes in that above statement. No wonder there is so much confusion here when people are misreading very recent information.

[Oscar]

The skin biopsy experiment must have been a test of gene expression of the AR. Gene expression must have been normal else he would have certainly said so.

So when exactly did he discover the cause of our problems? That is a MASSIVE statement to make.

Awor has dented his credibility in my eyes with a number of blatant lies and exaggerations and half-truths to try and convince everyone he is on the right path. Look at some of the other posts he has made, it is dificult to decipher what he is saying, but does this sound like someone that has found the cause or someone still trying to validate an idea?

[dgreene]

BrokenPecker,

What do you mean you contributed to the study? You got a skin biopsy for the study? Have you read the research paper (or however much has been written so far)?

Another question I have is, how do we know the problem is not located elsewhere as well? The study only looked at penile skin tissue, what if there is something wrong in the liver or the brain?

[Dubya_B]

Oscar, seriously, just read the damn study thread. Every word from beginning to end.

Maybe you should just ask awor to clarify anything that you perceive to be blatant lies or exaggerations before making accusations.
As far as half-truths go, it was already said up front that certain aspects of the study were going to be kept secret until the results were published, so the whole truth can’t be expected.

Did you ever stop to think that some of the “blatant lies” are only conjectures or estimates made by awor and others, and were never intended to be taken as “facts”?

Sheesh, I really feel bad for awor and everyone who went through the trouble of making the study happen. It must suck putting forth years of effort with nothing but good intentions, to have some of the people you are trying to help question your actions, motives, and use your words to attack you.

When is your research project planned to begin, Oscar?

How many teams of real qualified scientists will be involved?

Will the first study be free of charge?

Maybe you should just start a separate thread instead to point out everything you think is wrong with the current study.

[Oscar]

Dubya_b thanks for your ideas. Im aware of what Im talking about thanks.

I understand the defensive attitude. Let me just say that awor is the most intelligent and capable person on this forum. His achievements are very impressive, he has mentioned a whole genome gene expression study next - a great idea.

So its very frustrating that he feels the need to be so economical with the truth. Awor says he has not found the cause of the problem and yet he also says he has found the cause of the problem. Why does he feel the need to say this? There are other things too.

I dont want to start a ‘list of awor’s mistruths thread’ for exactly the reasons you mention. Beggars cant be choosers. But people have gotten the impression that something has been found that can cause our problems - it has not!

[BP7667]

@dgreene

BrokenPecker,

What do you mean you contributed to the study? You got a skin biopsy for the study? Have you read the research paper (or however much has been written so far)?

Another question I have is, how do we know the problem is not located elsewhere as well? The study only looked at penile skin tissue, what if there is something wrong in the liver or the brain?

1. I sent my DNA and various test data off to the scientists as they requested it.

2. The study was not only on penile tissue. There was a 2nd stage to this first part of the study where they collected DNA and lab test results from 60+ guys to use for analysis.

I do not know if this is what he is specifically referring to, but you can be assured that PFS does not effect one part of the body alone. From what I can gather about Awor’s research PFS is essentially a “acquired genetic disorder” brought on by finasteride. This means it effects us on a cellular level, altering the way our bodies manage themselves chemically/hormonally. Given what we know and experience it doesn’t even make sense to pin this all on one area of the body, penis, prostate or liver. Instead think of it like this: inside our cells are switches which run programs which tell the body how to operate. Finasteride permentally changed when some of these switches turn off and or on.

[dgreene]

It’d be really interesting to get people who have recovered to be involved in the next study. That way we could see if these cellular changes reverted back to normal.

Did the study have a control group of 60+ people as well? And how did you get people without PFS to contribute to the penile skin biopsies?

[BP7667]

@dgreene

Did the study have a control group of 60+ people as well?

Not that I am aware of, but I didn’t setup the study.

And how did you get people without PFS to contribute to the penile skin biopsies?

I don’t think they did, but once again I am not close enough to the study to know for sure.

[Mew]

There are control groups for both investigations (penile biopsies and genetics studies). I don’t know the specifics for each but I know they are part of the overall study design.

[BP7667]

@Mew

There are control groups for both investigations (penile biopsies and genetics studies). I don’t know the specifics for each but I know they are part of the overall study design.

It makes sense that it wouldn’t be hard for them to get control participants. When I was in college I remember seeing flyers around campus offering everything from free food to small amounts of money to participants for various studys in the psychology department. How much would it take to get your average college student to go spit in a cup for a few mins for a DNA test? Probably not much. The tissue test might have been slightly harder to get people for.

[dgreene]

I have another question, maybe its best for Awor to answer put I’ll put it out there.

If we has symptoms like brain fog, insomnia, weight loss, etc. but have gone away, does that mean whatever molecular signaling involved for those functions has reverted back to normal?

So I had all of those symptoms plus sexual side effects and now all I have are sexual side effects. Does that mean my body is functioning normally for the most part, but somehow my sexual functioning is being disrupted still by the previously mentioned mechanisms?

[spstriken]

@dgreene

I have another question, maybe its best for Awor to answer put I’ll put it out there.

If we has symptoms like brain fog, insomnia, weight loss, etc. but have gone away, does that mean whatever molecular signaling involved for those functions has reverted back to normal?

So I had all of those symptoms plus sexual side effects and now all I have are sexual side effects. Does that mean my body is functioning normally for the most part, but somehow my sexual functioning is being disrupted still by the previously mentioned mechanisms?

I don’t think these symptoms go away. I have bad and good days, never fully recovered.

[dgreene]

Mine have. Sleep is normal, concentration is normal, no brain fog. The only reason my mood is down is because of what’s happened. All that remains are the sexual side effects, which are pretty severe.

[Second_Amendment]

@Broken_Pecker

It makes sense that it wouldn’t be hard for them to get control participants. When I was in college I remember seeing flyers around campus offering everything from free food to small amounts of money to participants for various studys in the psychology department. How much would it take to get your average college student to go spit in a cup for a few mins for a DNA test? Probably not much. The tissue test might have been slightly harder to get people for.

I think they had the penile skin control group before the study.