Not that i will try this in near future, but if my last Keto diet plan don’t give any results, im maybe going to try TRT or similar like that.
So question is:
is TRT always means the natural shutdown of body’s natural T production? What happens when you quit the treatment? Is there any chance of permanent baseline improvements and healthy natural T production after treatment? Thanks much.
I was on it 8 months and came off cold turkey since it didn’t do anything other then raise estrogen in my case, I felt no different when I came off my T went from 945 to 370 the last time I checked and I felt just as bad without TRT.
TRT was very weird in my case.
I started October 2017. Every symptom got better. My libido was off the charts for 2 months. Then I sadly started arimidex and raised my t dose further. Lost a bit progress but still great overall (except shrinkage and orgasm quality)
I continued TRT until December 2018. I noticed that I felt better with lower dose. I tapered my dose over 4 weeks, then stopped TRT and started clomid and Tamoxifen to restart my HPTA and natural testosterone production.
It worked. My libido was again crazy and stayed like that even after stopping clomid and Tamoxifen.
Now I don’t take anything except vemoherb tribulus and my libido is still the same like it was on 250mg/week. My energy and sleep is perfect. I never got blood work after TRT but I guess I have natural high T now, which is amazing.
So in my case CYCLING TRT was necessary for libido recovery. It makes sense that raising androgens and then dropping makes the AR more sensitive again.
Wow! It sounds like you had a spectacular success with TRT. Can you tell us exactly what you took, what dosage and how often?
Also, what were your symptoms before TRT and how long did you have them? How would you rate your libido before, during and after TRT?
“It makes sense that raising androgens and then dropping makes the AR more sensitive again.” - In fact !
On the other hand the thing that does not make sense is that you still did not make the survey.
Do you need help ?
Would you say your libido and erections were exactly like pre-PFS? I realize a lot of people consider their improvements as ‘‘recovery’’ because they happy with what they get. I mean, what if nobody has actually recovered completely? Years have passing and we are forgetting how we actually felt before PFS… it is so so sad.
Can you please specifiy this? I just need a sprinkle of hope… I hope you really remember your old self and don’t consider improvements as ‘‘full recovery’’ as some people in this forum does… If anyone has ever experienced temporary same old pre-pfs self ever, please let me know. Im losing hope these days.
My libido is actually stronger than pre PFS now. Almost hypersexual. I strongly believe I have permantely upregulated AR in some body parts. Pre PFS I wasn’t dominant sexually for example, but now I am. Basically the only thing that was better pre PFS are orgasms and my dick size. And pre PFS I was stable 24/7, no crashes.
I still get mini crashes if I use too much tribulus etc. There is still this AR issue.
Testosterone cypionate. 50mg every 2 days.
Later went to crazy dosages like 100mg every 2 days. Then at the end of TRT I only used 20mg every 2 days. Then I stopped TRT and used 50mg clomid with 40mg Tamoxifen every day.
Pre TRT: low libido, low energy, low sensitivity, weak orgasm, never horny.
On TRT: normal or high libido, high energy, good sensitivity, orgasm okay or weak sometimes, finally could get very horny again.
Post TRT: high libido, high energy, high sensitivity, orgasm okay or weak sometimes, can get horny
Did you get blood tests before, during and after TRT? Were you achieving normal or super high levels of T while on TRT?
Did your estrogen spike up after taking each shot of T? I had really bad issues with estrogen I was taking 50mg every 3 days.
Before TRT I had 420 ng/dl.
On 200mg per week I had 1250 ng/dl, Top of the range.
Then on 300mg per week I had 1900 ng/dl.
On 500mg per week 3700 ng/dl.
I started arimidex when I went on 300mg. With 200mg I didn’t need any AI. Injecting every 2 days worked for estrogen control.
Later I went crazy with arimidex and used 1mg per day for a month or so. But at that time my libido was actually not good. I stopped arimidex cold turkey and instantly felt better. Then I started tapering my TRT dose.
Btw. during TRT I used massive doses of creatine. 20g per day. It raises DHT very high. So my DHT was definitely off the charts on TRT, but now I don’t take anything and my libido is exactly the same if not better!
Maybe that’s the key for my recovery : I raised my DHT ridiculously high and that changed something with my AR.
Hard to say. I lost length and girth and it always stayed the same. Same size before and after TRT. Basically my only symptom that never improved, which is terrible. Had amazing girth before PFS.
Thanks for the detailed answers @Invictus! It’s important for us to know who gets better doing what, even if not everyone benefits from the same treatment.
How long did you go between quitting TRT and starting tribulus? Do you think the only reason you have libido right now is because of tribulus, or is it because of the other treatments you’ve done?
I always used tribulus, long before TRT and during TRT too. I also stopped tribulus many times and still keep normal libido. But with tribulus my libido is through the roof.
Maybe because everyones’ definition of recovery is different. I define recovery as being healthy enough that I do not think about accutane or saw palmetto everyday and can lead a normal, happy, healthy purposeful life physically, sexually and mentally -professionally.
The goal of going back to 100% pre-hit state is very ambitious. Not sure if there are any examples of that either (especially for accutane). You will make yourself unhappy and depressed that way which will slow down your recovery.
We all live in a constant PTSD state, gets worse in time as recovery is a very bumpy road where it difficult to recognize patterns and is very specific to each person/case. Try to address that first. I found long runs and cognitive behavioral therapy (ios apps like quirk) help.
Killing yourself is not an option.
I have always thought, or at least for a while, that this (increasing androgen load through the roof) may be one way to cure PFS. I must say I am too afraid to try that on myself. That’s why I have been arguing for RAT STUDIES with which we can test protocols like that.
Of course this approach would go against the dominant theory of PFS - which I am skeptical of and which I think is not supported by the available evidence - that PFS is caused by a sudden overwhelming of the androgen receptors following their up-regulation by finasteride.
I am currently taking a DHT supplement and there isn’t much effect on PFS symptoms but my dose is very low (my DHT now is in the middle of the range vs. way below range before). I suspect I have to go way above normal range to approach the zone I am talking about. I am still afraid to try it…
Interesting. Elaborate?
I wrote more about this here: