I don’t understand it, why do we have side effects after we quit using the drug while the hairloss begins to show up again? If the body stops producing dht so I suppose that the hairloss shouldn’t start over again after we quit using the drug…Can someone explain it to me please?
If we had the answer we wouldn’t be here.
Oneandonly,
It’s definitely not as simple as just DHT. Myself and many others here have had their DHT levels tested. My DHT level came in smack dab in the middle of my range. As for why the effects continue, like Mew said we don’t know.
BostonUSA,
As you will (or should) have read, one’s serum DHT level is ‘IRRELEVANT’.
That’s why it is important to measure one’s 3 Adiol G level (as it is a good marker for DHT activity).
You clearly don’t understand this, which is a shame, as you’ve made over 200 posts and are propogating ignorance by stating ‘it’s more than DHT’.
I suggest you read the relevance of 3 Adiol G and get yours tested before you make any more terrible posts.
If I was new here (and didn’t think this is all due to low 3 Adiol G +/- adrenal fatigue, which I do), your post would scare me.
Instead, I know you’re being ignorant. I can deal with this.
JN
BostonUSA is not being ignorant. You just want to believe that he is, to make yourself feel better.
Your position is that the post-finasteride syndrome is about poor DHT activity in target tissue, and that you can tell this by our low Adiol-G scores. And you’ve thrown in adrenal fatigue for good measure.
Even according to you, then, our problem is about more than just DHT, which is all that BostonUSA said. According to you, our problem is about a malfunctioning 5ar II enzyme, and about the adrenals.
Of course, every intelligent reader of this forum realises that it is not clear how we should interpret our low Adiol-G scores. Perhaps they are due to a malfunctioning 5ar II enzyme, or perhaps they are due to somethng else. Instead of telling BostonUSA to read more, why don’t you read Awor’s posts on this subject: you will learn something. There is a lot you don’t understand about low Adiol-G. That’s mainly because there is a lot that no one understands about it.
In fact, then BostonUSA’s post is far closer to truth than your own. He says, simply, that we don’t know what causes the post-finasteride syndrome, and that is true.
You’ve become obessed by the idea that low DHT in target tissue is the problem, and DHT is the cure. When anyone makes a post that casts doubt on this, you attack that person to assuage the fear that it causes you to feel. Try to recognise this pattern in your behaviour, so that you can stop behaving in this way.
If low DHT in target tissue is the problem, how come people have used Andractim with no result? I’ve been using it at high dose for a month now, alongside TRT as per Crisler’s instructions, and nothing has happened.
It will be interesting to see how Masteron works out for you. Unfortunately we’ll have to wait about a year for you to get past your manic “its cured me, it’s the cure for everything, ever” phase, and to the truth.
ScaredMale30,
I’m curious as to how you’ve been applying the Andractim, as in dosage and area of application? I’ve noticed that when i apply a small amount (less than a gram) to my wang before bed that i get crazy morning erections. Like, the kind you have to stand back a few feet from the toilet and bow down just to take a piss in the morning. Have you tried this? Did Dr. Crisler mention whether it was a good/bad idea?
Admitedly it’s done nothing for my libido, but I feel it’s a good sign, that under the right conditions your dick can still be a beast. i haven’t been doing it all the time, maybe a few days on then take a week off.
Scaredmale30,
Congratulations on being the best balanced individual on this forum with chips on both shoulders.
I correctly stated that BostonUSA is ignorant to the mode of action of DHT. He seems to think serum DHT is a relevant parameter in illustrating DHT effects. Well, it’s not. It’s irrelevant. His ignorance isn’t good enough given Mew’s posting of a screenshot months ago, indicating the lack of importance of serum DHT.
I stated only that I believe 3 Adiol G to be the main factor in our suffering. The finding of widespread low 3 Adiol G is now surely statistically significant. My own clinical situation improves with administration of DHT.
I am also surprised how he has decided to not to get his 3 Adiol G tested. This is totally crazy and the lack of proactivity is shameful. Given the potential relevance of 3 Adiol G, I find it astonishing he chooses to log in to this website and make over 200 posts, yet ignore the one parameter that COULD be critical to our and HIS understanding of the problem. Added to this, I assume he lives in Boston USA, and getting the test done would be easy and quick.
I note also that you haven’t tested your 3 Adiol G which is a pity as you’ve already started on Andractim. I consider this a poor clinical decision.
I am fully updated re, 3 Adiol G and have posted extensive links to latest scientific research on my Recoveries thread.
Now, I’m being perfectly reasonable with my thoughts.
JN
No, you said that he was “propagating ignorance by stating that it is more than just DHT”.
Our problem is clearly more than just a straightforward lack of DHT: so BostonUSA is right.
You find it a pity that I have not tested Adiol G. But that’s because you’ve become obsessed by the idea that if everyone tests it, our problem will magically disappear.
We have little idea how to interpret the low Adiol G scores that we’re seeing. It’s easy to post a list of studies that mention Adiol G in a thread. Have you read them? Most of them have no bearing whatsoever on the problem we’re thinking about. Your theory seems to be that our entire problem is about poor DHT activity in target tissue, but there are pieces of this puzzle that don’t fit that explanation. See Awor’s thread for more on that.
I expect I also have low Adiol G. If this was confirmed by a test, what could I do about it? Nothing, except try DHT. I can try DHT anyway, and I’m doing so. I don’t know what it is doing to my Adiol G score. But who cares? I only care about whether it is making me feel better.
So far, Andractim has done nothing. Awor took huge doses of Andractim, with no result. Others have tried Andractim with no result. On the other hand, some have tried it and found it made a difference. We don’t know why some have luck and others don’t. But it would seem that supplementation of DHT is not a comprehensive answer.
I’d be more circumspect about criticising people for “propagating ignorance”, considering the posts you made on this forum when you rejoined earlier this year.
And if you want to bait me into committing suicide, at least be man enough to post about that in the open forum rather than sending PMs.
If he doesn’t understand the basics behind the mechanism of action of DHT, and flaunts his ignorance so flagrantly, he is in no position to draw the conclusion that it is ‘more than DHT’.
One thing that is important to many chaps here is the maintenance of hope that symptoms will be improved or reversed.
If I was new to this forum and read the comments of such a prolific poster, I would lose hope and spirit.
I guess I’m just disappointed that such a prolific poster is so ignorant about the basics of what is likely to be the most important discovery thus far; the relevance of 3 Adiol G. I’m also determined to maintain hope in this community in the face of such ignorance.
With respect to the other stuff; I don’t need to prove that I’m a worthwhile chap to frequent these forums. It’s clear that I am. Yes, I’m seeking the truth like everyone else, and have accepted that I go about it in a different way to you.
I doubt that you, given your suicidal ideation, yet with a wife and much less severe symptoms, would have seen the last 9 years through with what I have faced. I think you would have killed yourself by now.
My HGH experience, overall, was a positive experience, and whilst it wasn’t ‘the cure’, it was certainly a cure of sorts, having given me a great year of work and football, and allowed me to get a beautiful girlfriend. Whilst I fell short and confused people (as we have already agreed), I perhaps could be given credit for exploring an avenue which cost me $15000 dollars, which provided symptomatic relief and which no-one else was close to trying, (and therefore eliminating it from the list of potential cures). Feel free to constantly raise the issue as a negative episode, however. Afterall, you seem a tedious bore of a human anyway.
The only other thing I’m keen to offer this thread is the odds for your impending suicide, as you did several weeks ago for mine. You offered 5-1 odds (making me favourite).
Chaps, I’m taking bets on Scaredmale30 committing suicide. I’m offering 2-1 odds.
Any takers?
JN
OK, now you’ve put that out there I suppose it is worthwhile me pointing out that I did not, as you claim, offer odds on your suicide. I offered odds on you being the author of an anonymous post on this forum. Go back and read the original thread. You’ve twisted the facts in your mind. How unlike you.
As for you offering odds on my suicide, I guess the idea is to insult me, but I don’t quite see how it works as an insult. It’s just weird.
In a year’s time, you’re going to be telling anyone who will listen how your Masteron experience was largely positive, even though it wasn’t the cure you’d persuaded yourself it was.
Scaredmale30,
Please can you stop following my posts like a scared sheep?
Given your precarious domestic situation, I suggest you direct positive energy towards saving your marriage, not negative energy towards internet jousting sessions!
That said, I’m flattered by your consistent efforts directed towards me!
Take care,
JN
You’re all over the place. Our communications follow this pattern: you make some kind of weird point, I reply to that point, you ignore my reply and move on to something else that has nothing to do with the previous point.
When you read your posts back, do they sound normal to you? Or can you hear that you sound deranged? Seek psychological help. It will improve your quality of life, whatever happens with our problem.
Despite yourself, though, you have hit on a genuine truth in your last post. Except for this idea that my marriage is in trouble: you’ve been obsessed with that since I mentioned I’d had an argument with my wife, and that was about seven months ago. I know you’ve never managed to hold down a relationship, but arguments happen.
Anyway, the point is: why am I spending time on this? We come across all kinds of strange and deluded people in daily life, and we don’t spend time on them. I’ve wasted hours of my life arguing with all kinds of stupidity and madness on this site.
This forum has become a habit. Ages ago I asked Mew to ban my IP, but he said it was too much hassle. I need to stop coming here, it’s a total waste of time.
What can usefully be said about our problem can be distilled to a few sentences. We aren’t responding to androgens properly, and we don’t know why. Try TRT. It might help, it might not. That’s pretty much it.
The rest is just endless talking in circles. The vast majority of users aren’t able to understand what little useful discussion goes on here, which is mostly led by Awor. Meanwhile, they are discouraged to try the one treatment that may help them. Either this condition is serious, or it is not. If it is, then it is reasonable to pursue treatment, even if that treatment is inconvenient, like TRT. If it is not, then let’s stop talking about it.
I’m about to re-write the hosts file in my computer, so that I won’t be able to access this site anymore. So this is my last post.
This is awesome! Good one JN!
My 3 adiol 3 results should be ready next week with all these holidays…
Cheers!
ScaredMale30.
I really don’t care about your ongoing war with JN, and you probably have some valid points towards what we understand or whatnot regarding medications and treatments. Most people here aren’t educated in this subject and probably have problems understanding the complexity of our situation.
I know I do, as I read hormones, enzymes, inhibitors and neurosteroids this is difficult for me to comprehend. It’s not my field of work. What I’ve come to learn is mostly thanks to this site; information, links, experiences etc.
As of now, I refuse to believe TRT is the ultimate answer for all of us right now. According to my very limited knowledge this should be the last effort if everything else fails, and to me it seems you think we need to use this last stand right now. Why is that?
Haven’t we established atleast something with low readings of 3 Adiol G that might point the marker in some direction, while it might not hit 100% - it’s something, right?
Hope is a important factor here, atleast for me. I tend to think things eventually will turn better, not hormone replacement therapy that might render me infertile. What you write doesnt help me.
What can we do to contribute right now? 3 Adiol G with the rest of the important hormones tested and report back - isn’t this the ideal mentality?
Help ourself to help others.
ps: stop shitstorms with suicides and such nonsense?
Well I’d say it is statistically significant. Given my clinical experience with taking DHT (Proviron for years, Drostanolone for 5 days), I’d say yes, there is HOPE. HOPEFULLY 100%.
This is serious. There is one thing that kept me going for the last 9 years, BEFORE the discovery of 3 Adiol G, and that was HOPE. There was one thing that kept Andy Duphrene sane in his 19 years in prison in ‘Shawshank Redemption’. That was HOPE.
I’m hoping my hope is not misplaced. My bold statement is thus: I will be VERY surprised if Drostanolone added to TRT does not return my sexual functioning to pre finasteride. I hope this is true.
I should receive Drostanolone in the next few days. ( I was unable to smuggle it back into Australia)
I’m sorry Manda. Too much ignorance here. HRT does NOT make you infertile. Good HRT incorporates HCG (human chorionic gonadotrophin) which is FSH/LH analogue and maintains sperm production from testes.
He should also have got his 3 Adiol G tested before starting on treatment. It gives a basis for clinical decisions and may be required in the event of a lawsuit.
He clearly was looking to quietly jump on the 3 Adiol G bandwagon without spending the money on getting the test done himself. This is a shame, as we need ALL men to test their 3 Adiol G. We need a team effort.
He may be right in that there is more to it that 3 Adiol G, but clinical decisions made by doctors are based on discrepancies in diagnostic tests. That’s modern medicine, and it’s what we rely on.
For years, there was no obvious abnormality in hormone profiles (which baffled all of us), and when one comes along (seemingly low 3 Adiol G), we get such a lame response to it (10 men have got theirs tested in 6 months!).
We have a duty to jump on this discovery and work on it.
Too much Andractim (DHT) can oppose E2 activity which has a negative on libido, erections etc. So his ‘high dose therapy’ may be antagonistic.
We need to all get 3 Adiol G tested and work on it. What else is there to work on? This parameter seems to fit our symptoms.
JN
I completley agree on the statement that it is shame that not more men on here have reported their 3AdiolG levels.
It is damn cheap to do so, at least in europe, can be done almost everywhere!!!
However, before getting this tested people jump on TRT and what not - which is obviously not helping out anyone here, go to Crisler, pay their asses off but can not afford 3AdiolG? WTF?!
I am also a patient of Crisler - he does not give much about AdiolG levels; but who cares? He is offering TRT as worth trying despite our knowledge that it doesn’t do any shit. Why would testosterone help us??? Don’t get me wrong, Crisler is helpful etc…, but he is not reading anything in my profiles.
Instead of taking whatever hormonal replacement, it is rather likely, that if the problem is indeed hormonal, to work on the metabolism of such. Replacing them is less than a bandaid (with the exception of muscle, bone loss etc…) - you can also just pop up some Cialis and go for it… .
3AdiolG might well be indicative of an unbalanced metabolism…and it is so simple to get it tested!
If it will help us in the future, yeah we don’t know yet - TRT, suprahigh levels of Testo etc… are not the cure in the very big majority of cases here! This has been clearly shown.
Guys as you know I did not take finesteride but saw palmetto but having the same symptoms. I am having low total T and low free T. Both are at the last number of the range.
total T 9 (8 - 38)
free T 24 (25 - 80)
prolactin 12 < 18 ug/L
what do you think should I go for 3AdiolG test. how and where should I go for this test. My doctor will not write this in Canada. Canadian system is kind of closed. you can not ask your Doc, I asked him write test for my Estradiol and he got angry. He is just interested in measuring my Total T and free T.
I think JN sent his sample to questdiagnostics.
questdiagnostics.com/
Would be good to know your levels before you kickstart testosterone again to have a comparison
Spstriken,
Exactly. Doctors are not there to treat patients a lot of the time. They are there to satisfy their own egos and controlling behaviour.
Seriously, doctors know SHIT about this. SO it’s time we woke up and start getting our asses into gear.
Get your 3 Adiol G tested.
I was formally a patient of Dr Crisler in 2005 (via email consultation). He’s incredibly proud of his HRT regimen (which is good, but easy to develop), but he only developed it because he abused anabolic steroids for 10 years and thus knew the intimate workings of the BB business.
He strongly disagreed when I told him I was going to take Proviron, yet this has a noticeable effect on improving my functioning.
JN
I still need to know how it will work for me.
no lab in Canada will draw your blood w/o Doctor’s priscription. And I am not sure which lab will perform this in Canada. so should I go to USA and have it done over there?