DHEA uses another pathway to increase DHT than T to DHT conversion, but it also increases estrogen at a higher rate.
I’ve read if you have lower body fat around 8% to 12%, you’ll have less E conversion from DHEA.
I have no experience with it, just from what I read. Do you know if the person who crashed have an increase Estrogens?
DHEA is unpredictable. I didn’t use DHEA, I used DHEA-reduced prohormones - androsterone and 4-andro.
Androsterone increases DHT through a different pathway than 5ar. It’s also a highly anxiolytic neurosteroid. It is great for sleep if anything
4-andro increases testosterone and estrogen. This can be helpful to keep things balanced because Androsterone lowers estrogen
Where do you get it?
@basementdweller what supplements or methods did you use to increase androsterone and 4-andro?
How are you feeling on the treatment, have you noticed improvements?
He said he had low estrogen after using Arimidex. I don’t know the timeline on when he was using that and if it was related to his dhea use.
I guess it can depend on if his estrogens got too low. It’s complicated to figure out dosing and everything else. Not a simple solution.
There are many bodybuilding supplement companies that sell these. Androhard and r-andro are two androsterone products I know of.
My experience with androsterone - at a low dose, is typically a reduction in anxiety and improved sleep for a week or two. My libido and strength improves a lot when I stack it with 4 andro. Strangely my mental sides start to worsen after that point though, so I can only do short cycles
Most people cycle it for like 6-8 weeks with little issue. I’m not recommending any hormones, this is just my experience with them
Doesn’t R-Andro not exist anymore?
he doesn’t reccomend it. he basically tried to delay and delay during my appointment, asking me information about my symptoms I had given him months prior, in may. he tried to ask me if i’ve seen doctors i’ve seen that he shouldn’t have known about- (alan jacobs, who i have seen, rachel rubin who i have not seen, but did have a scheduled phone consultation with) only once i saw there were ten minutes left in the appointment, I said something along the lines of, "listen, I have seen many doctors, and none have been able to do anything. this includes psychologic and psychiatric help as well. all I want from you is a path forward, whether it is something diagnostic (i said i preferred this, eg. spinal tap to measure neurosteroids, skin sample from penis to measure androgen receptor density, nerve sensitivity testing,)or a treatment. at this point he said “do you want trt?” I said i’d prefer it to leaving with nothing, and he left our appointment, sent in the nurse, and gave me a shot right there. ultimately, he said this doesn’t work for most people but he had nothing else to reccomend.
@Cman Wow. Sorry to hear, mate. So he was just stalling? Most of these docs are thieves, aren’t they. They know they can’t do anything for you but they tell you only after they take your money.
So did you try the TRT for a longer period? I think I want to try that next. My logic is that if Tribulus, which raises T, works a little bit, then TRT should work even better.
I think I mixed up Irwig and Jacobs. I think it’s Jacobs who does the high dose TRT. What did he recommend when you saw him?
Jacibs just reccomended clomid and anastrazole, and even prescribed liothyronine. None of it did anything, although i avoided the anastrazole and havent tried it.
The trt shots if i’m being honest, I didn’t feel sny different at all. Going to try not taking my shot this time and see if i notice mysekf getting worse. I dont want to be on it if i don’t notice any effects.
Any update on dr jarvis?
I haven’t seen him or anyone else yet. I will update when I do.
The sad reality is that nobody has come up with a treatment that works for PFS. Maybe a treatment helps one or two guys, but I haven’t seen anything that works consistently in the long time I’ve been here.
Irwig is not a thief. In fact he is one of the first people to have written up a case study of PFS patients, if not the first. He has repeatedly said that he doesn’t know of any treatment for PFS and he’s a conservative doctor so I don’t think he likes to experiment. Jacobs and Goldstein are more open to experimental treatments with hormone therapies. I’m not sure why these doctors see PFS patients, but Irwig has tremendous integrity.
I think he walks a line between putting out a study acknowledging that there are real consistent effects of finasteride, while also not trying to treat or explain it in a way that would deem him a quack in the eyes of the general medical community. I think its half assed, but also the first step toward getting the public to acknowledge this without writing the doctor off as crazy. That said, his attitude was not exactly helpful from a patient’s perspective. I’m just angry at merck, myself, and the prescribing doctor.
On the other hand, Dr. Jacobs seemed to pretend he knew everything that was going on and to be honest, didn’t seem to really know much. He literally pulled out a pocket calculator to calculate some ratio of thyroid hormone from a bloodwork test he ordered, and said I was at 18 instead of 20 and prescribed liothyronine. It’s just frustrating to try and find a way to be alive right now. He said there were no negative effects from anastrazole, when I have seen a lot of them documented here. He also couldn’t help with anything evaluation-wise. I just wish someone would try and make a diagnostic measure for those who have this disease- It would make the pathway for a cure, compensation, and prevention about 1000x more likely.
That’s really not a fair characterization of Dr. Irwig. Since you new here, you wouldn’t be expected to be familiar with the history of growing acceptance of PFS. Irwig really went out on a limb to stand up for PFS patients and published the original case series which helped us get recognition that PFS is a condition that deserves attention. He received a lot of criticism for it back then but he offered a significant contribution.
He unfortunately doesn’t have much else to offer. I think he is public about not knowing how to treat it so he isn’t actively trying to bring in PFS patients to his practice.
It could be worth visiting Dr. Jacobs to test for general endocrine problems. We don’t really know if PFS is related to hormone levels or something different at this point. IMO it’s definitely worth getting worked up by an endo and other specialists to see if there are simpler fixes that may explain your condition. But true PFS isn’t treatable right now as far as I know.
You pretty much restated what I said about dr irwig. And I already saw both dr irwig and dr jacobs.
I didn’t restate what you said. You referred to his work as “half assed” when he is actually a real hero to the PFS community for his pioneering contribution.
I am ready to try TRT and I am considering going to Dr. Keith Jarvi in Toronto, but I am concerned he may not know how to do TRT properly. His info page however looks reassuring as he specializes in male reproductive issues. https://www.mountsinai.on.ca/care/mkuwc/staff/dr-keith-jarvi
I have talked with people who have a lot of personal experience trying different types of TRT and from them I have heard clomid does not work very well long term as a form of TRT.
I am a lot more willing to trust doctors or patients who have a lot of experience applying TRT, and not just those who are academics and read papers. I would trust an experienced bodybuilder the most, in fact.
Does anyone know a good and experienced endo in Ontario?
Apparently, Dr. Crisler had recommended Dr. Komer in Burlington, ON, who specializes in treating andropause. Dr. Kromer - Anti-Aging doc in Burlington, Ontario, Canada Has anyone seen him? http://mastersmensclinic.com/
P.S. Actually I just found a post by someone who saw Dr. Komer but it is not clear if Dr. Komer is on board about PFS… 2 Toronto, Canada Specialist Doctors - aware of the dangers of Finasteride
According to this post, Dr. Komer used to be on the Foundation’s list of doctors but I don’t think he is there any more. Is there information in that fact? My progress
I saw Dr. Jarvi again. Going to give clomid a go since my T and LH are quite low.
I have a phone appt with him next month. Looking forward to it, but, I don’t really know what do. Trying test cyp the last 7 weeks.
Interesting he picked clomid over hcg.