Getting better after almost 3 years of nightmare

#1
  1. Where are you from (country)?
    Hungary.

  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
    I’ve sturted the drug 3years ago and it wasnt hard to find the site as it is on the top of google findings when it comes to propecia/dutasteride side effects.

  3. What is your current age, height, weight?
    28, 180cm 77kg

  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?
    Yes, but not much. I walk a lot and some lighter athletic excercises daily. Not long ago I started heavy weighlifting but currently I do it only every 3-4 days.

  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?
    No diet. I always eat what I desire but there is no sugar/fat overdose as I dont really like food with high fat/sugar.

  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
    frontal hair loss, NW2.5

  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?
    9months

  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?
    25, 2009 winter

  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
    26, 2010 end of summer. I never forget that august when I realized that I was totally numbed sexually .

  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
    Cold turkey as it was recommended by an urologist. The side effects have nothing to do with quitting. I’ve noticed the disappearing morning wood about 1 month after starting the drug but they wrote that side effects go away with long term use. I’ve worked a lot that time anyway and it wasn’t so noticable that my urge to masturbate slowly decreased to zero. I had extremely high libido, could get an erection as a result of erotic thoughs in seconds and I wouldnt be able to imagine that a drug can do this with me.

  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?
    generic dutasteride (Dutas from an online store).

  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
    0.5mg/day

  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
    After 1 month I realized the loss of morning wood.

  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?
    When I discontinued the drug the only side effect I was aware of was total loss of libido and erections. In the following 2-2.5 years I got more and more exhausted and by blood tests gradually bacame worse and worse. In the first half of this year I was in the worst condition in my life ever. I’ve started a treatment that brought surprising results in a few months and I’m in a much better shape now.

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
Loss of Morning Erections
Loss of Spontaneous Erections
Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
Severe Depression / Melancholy
Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
    At the beginning I tried to excercise eat healthy food and some vitamin supplements. I’ve tried things like maca and Icariin bought from sources with good reputation. After almost a year with my worsening sitution I’ve given up with this. I’ve visited a lot of doctors who told me that my blood tests were not perfect but OK and they wouldn’t do anything about it.

  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

So I’ve started to take this poision because I was totally scared of becoming bald about 3-4 years ago. That time I was working hard and didn’t really have women in my life, just masturbated when I had to. I was a bit depressed about my hair loss and I thought that hair loss kills me anyway if the drug doesn’t… :slight_smile: Today I think differently about this. Sexual power is priceless. Within 9 months the drug turned my extremely high libido into nothing. I was a superman, having an erotic dirty thought or hearing a girl moaning in a near flat induced a testosterone rush and a rock hard erection in seconds without any physical stimulation and I couldn’t think about anything else than sex.

After 9 months of dutasteride I had absolutely no libido and I didn’t want to masturbate anymore, slight ED. I was able to get an erection (even rock hard one) but only courching and sitting position but only in the evening and only by masturbating for 30-60 minutes. This was a problem when my urologist asked me to do some sperm tests. I couldn’t have an orgasm, I had only a little ejaculate and even that was totally watery with with at most a few white spots and it was just slowly flowing out instead of shooting out. 3 sperm tests at my urologists, all of them diagnosing prostate inflammation of unknown reason. Today I know that bad A/E ratio and estrogen dominance can cause this.

I think the doctors I’ve visited are incompetent in this topic, they just check the ranges and if your value is within range then everything is OK for them. With my current knowledge I already know that my LH and FSH that time were extremely low (LH: 2/8 FSH: 2/14) and that I started to become estrogen dominant (E2: 130/170) that screwed up my androgen/estrogen ratio too. After stopping the drug the following year I tried to make the situation better with eating healthy and taking some multivitamins and exercising regularly. I just became more and more exhausted and numbed/depressed and gave up with this after a year. The year that followed this was a hopeless disaster, I gave up with my life and after two years of quitting the drug I decided that I kill myself if there is nothing that makes the situation better in the next year. I’m a very slim guy with body fat around 8-10% but I started to develop pseudo gynecomastia and fatty patches at my nipples and in my armpits, above my penis and on my thighs. (despite the fact that I don’t have fat anywhere else including my stomach that is a typical area for man when it comes to gaining fat.) I had pain in my knees. I could sleep only 1-3 hours a day.

So after two years of quitting I started to get some blood tests (on my own money) and visited a lot of doctors and started to research the internet to find out how should my blood test results should look if I was healthy.
My first blood test two years after quitting the drug (value/range_max, I’m lazy to be detailed and precise):
LH: 2/8
FSH: 2/19
T: 18/27
E2: 190/170
SHBG: 40/90
PRL: 300/280
DHEAS: 6/19
Unfortunately measuring DHT, sensitive E2, and 3adiol-g is not possible here.

Doctors’ reaction: “Hmmm, almost OK.” Ridiculous. In my opinion doctors here are totally incompetent when it comes to age dependent hormonal balance. Maybe because this kind of imbalance happens rarely and it wouldn’t be big business to specialize in this or I don’t know…

I found one doctor who diagnosed hyperthyroidism and mild hyperprolactinaemia. Another doctor (who didn’t want to do anything to me because I was OKish) recommended a HCG therapy when I told him that I would kill myself anyway within a year so everything is allowed. According to the doc some people are using this instead of TRT and for some people it seems to reset HPTA and it usually doesn’t screw up things if it is used with low dose or even higher doses with half-one year between doses. I read similarly good things about HCG so it was no question that I wanted to try it. We injected 3 x 5000IU HCG in may this year (2013) with a week dealy between the 3 injections. I didn’t take any aromatase inhibitors like body builders recommend it with HCG. In the first two weeks of HCG I felt like a 200 year old man without power in my arms and legs. I could do exercises, it took effort to sit in my chair and typing with my keyboard. I had T=10/27. In the next 2 weeks I became better and better. 1 month after starting the treatment my T was 21/27 and it remained on this level since then. The doctor was surprised that my E2 didn’t skyrocket as it usually does, instead it became 70/170.

So the final results of a 1 month HCG therapy at the end of May:
T: 21/27
E2: 70/170
PRL: 500/280
LH: 5/8
FSH: 5/19

  • Hyperthiroidism gradually disappeared. (Previously a doc recommended taking medications to treat this but I refused to do so.)

My PRL increased. Currently the effects of the treatment seem to be permanent and I felt 100 times better after the treatment. I could sleep only 1-3 hours a day before HCG now I can sleep 7-10 hours even if I wake up often I can sleep back. After HCG most (80%) of my pseudo gyno and (probably E2 induced) fat has disappeared in two weeks without any training/exercise. Currently I have only a bit of the original fat (most of it in the triangle above my penis) and I recently started training that will probably eliminate the rest in the next months. My knee pain started to evaporate. Today my knee is OK.

After the HCG I started taking quinagolide 75mg/day to counteract PRL and I take the pills since then. It effectively zeroes out PRL within a month. Unfortunately after zeroing out my PRL my SHBG became 70/90 making my free T probably low. My E2 seems to be stabilized at 100/170, maybe a bit high.

At the end of Jun I could get an orgasm. I did’t have erotic thoughts and the desire to have sex but I could get it up easily and after 1-2 minutes of masturbation I could get rock hard (only in sitting position) and imagine a wet pussy as desirable. :slight_smile: Erection was still going away quckly without physical stimulation or by standing up. I guess this was the result of high SHBG and low free T.

I almost forgot: Meanwhile I was taking multivitamin pills and very strong D3 drops as I had completely depleted D3 level and a doc said that it helps regeneration on cell level.

Since then my situation gets better and better. Somewhere I read that the results of chronic sleep apnea takes some time to evaporate. I concentrate on sleeping at least 4-6 rem cycles (6-9 hours) a day. (I have never been good at sleeping, I wake up often).

My current SHBG is 50/90, if I’m watching some act photos (I regularly visit a site) sometimes I can have dirty thoughts and a little bit of spontaneous erection. I notice boobs, nice legs/arses and camel toes again while walking on the street! :slight_smile: Since last month I have “morning wood” again and it seems to became gradually better and better. My wood isn’t hard but strong enough to point upwards. I have this weak wood ALWAYS no matter when I wake up. I have it even if I just go to sleep an hour in the afternoon. I have it always if I wake up after every rem cycle during the night. In the past few days in the morning sometimes I had the mood for making some sex. I masturbate 1-2 times a day and I always try to do it for at least half an hour. It seems that if I masturbate for longer then I have better and better erections as minutes pass and finally I have a much better orgasm if I masturbate longer. (I guess my free T increases with time.)
I read on a site that many urologists agree that “erections make erections” and another site recommended to have sex or erections “manually” especially if you don’t have morning wood because it helps the oxidation and keeping the health of your penile tissues. I made some experiments and it seems that sleeping 1-2 hours is enough for the refractory and I can do it again if I want. Don’t misunderstand, I don’t make sport from masturbation, just shared my observations. I’ve stumbled upon some sites where guys dealing with masturbation induced sexual exhaustion/penis insensitivity but that has never been an issue for me and I don’t masturbate with exotic methods.

My sperm count is also somewhat better. If I don’t masturbate for days then I can collect a fair amount of white ejaculate that sometimes shooting out a bit, otherwise its watery and just flowing out even if I have orgasm. Besides this my prostate seems to work well and making things wet and it’s doing its job even when I’m out of sperm. My penis became a bit more puffy and from totally numb it is sensitive again and it is cold only very rarely in contrast to pre-HCG: it was always hanging and it was cold/insensitive all the time. 2 months ago I was often surprised I moved my hands into the pockets of my jeans for some money. :slight_smile:

I think during the 3 years of nightmare I maintained my original NW2.5 frontal hairline. Since the HCG treatment I’ve lost about 0.5cm of my frontal hairline and my overall body hair is double of what I’ve ever had. Stronger darker hair on my arms/legs while I’ve always had only light hair on my arms. I’ve never had noticable hair on the top of my fingers/hand, now I have. Extended/much stronger chest hair. To be honest I don’t care about this, just mentioned it for your information. I don’t anymore care about going bald. I shave the rest down if the time comes. All I need is a functioning libido/cock pair! :slight_smile:

So this is my story: reaching a relatively good state that gets better and better in 4-5 months starting from totally sick/exhausted/depressed/dead. I thought this to be impossible.

Future plans:

  • I’ve recently started heavy weigh lifting (with 2-3 days of rest between trainings).
  • I’m thinking about trying another HCG session a few months later but I’m not sure about this.
  • Maybe trying some aromatase inhibitors if I have to fight estrogen to make my A/E ratio better but I would do this only as a last resort.

I still definitely have some more left to declare myself cured but I’m on the right way. Any suggestions/recommendations are welcomed (regarding the heavy weigh lifting / second hcg session / anything else) and I wish the best for everyone else on the forum. Don’t be afraid to take steps, especially if your situation doesn’t get better or it becomes worse and worse.

1 Like
#2

I wouldn’t say I’m recovering by influencing myself a lot hormonally but I gave myself a very hard reset with my first hcg shots and instead of situation that gets worse and worse things turned into something that gets better and better. The first month of “hcg party” alone eliminated my estrogen dominance that is the key in my opinion. My recent hcg shots had no effect whatsoever but I’m slowly recovering anyway… I’m still taking quinagolide everyday. I don’t know whether I still need this just to make sure… Men said to have no side effects of having low PRL. I may try hcg every half year, it didn’t hurt, I will see.

I can get it up relatively easy with manual stimulation and sometimes if I force it a bit I can have nasty thoughts and get half erected even without physical stimulation. If I masturbate for several ten minutes then I my arousal is very good, my erection gets rock hard and my erection lasts for some time even after ejaculation and sometimes my ejaculation shoots not just dripping out! Not too long ago I couldn’t even get it up in standing or lying position, not it isn’t a problem. Semen is never watery and regenerates a small amount within half day like in the good old days. My morning erections are still not rock hard but they are always there and I feel that a lot of work has been done at night…

My arousal sucks, that’s the biggest problem currently. If I can catch a bit of arousal then erection comes automatically. I don’t know whether the reason for this is hormonal or the fact that I wasn’t sexually involved in the past 3 years and my fantasy has vanished… Thinking about some nice wet pussies did wonders 3 years ago…
Now I can have sex if I can get aroused but needs a patient “bitchy” and sexually confident girl who can get along with this especially because I’m somewhat distracted by my anxiety as well. If I get it up and start having sex then my head can get empty and the arousal is there and the sex usually becomes very good in 5 minutes. My erection wins over condoms that wasn’t possible 1-2 months ago but having just unsafe sex is ways better… :slight_smile:
3 years ago I often had premature ejaculation and continued sex after 10 minutes, my arousal was very aggressive. With my current lowered arousal I can have sex for very long periods (hours) and I am extremely good at controlling my ejaculation, I can ejaculate as slowly as I can which is very enjoyable and even without actually shooting away my orgasm. This has some benefits as well. :slight_smile:

I didn’t do blood tests in the previous months but at the time of eliminating my estrogen dominance my SHBG went up to 50-60. This can be a good reason for my crappy arousal. I will test it in the near future…

#3

I wrote a long reply but this crappy site logged me out and I sent the message to nowhere… I don’t have the nerves to write it again so I will be short. I used HCG to give a “hard reset” for myself the recent shots didn’t do anything. The first shots were terrible but finally they did wonders eliminating my estrogen dominance, insomnia and fatigue at the same time. The recent shots did nothing but I’m slowly recovering anyway…

A lot of things improved:

  • better erections even in standing and lying position
  • no more watery semen
  • sometimes shooting ejaculation

The only thing that sucks hard is arousal. I could arouse extremely easily and now it just sucks. If I have a bitchy and sexually confident girl who can get away with this then I can have really good sex. An interesting thing is that while I often had premature ejaculation 3 years ago with my lowered libido I can have sex for ages and I am extremely good at controlling my ejaculation that is a very good and joyful game… :slight_smile:

Thats it. I will do blood tests in the near future we will see what happens with my previously measured SHBG of 50-60 because in my opinion that has a lot to do with my free T and also with my arousal.

#4

Androstendione 12/9
E2 90/180 (??? mid-range, I don’t know how good is this but according to my findings it seems to be OKish…)
TT 22/27 (the best T measurement I’ve ever got, I had less even during my high dose HCG sessions)
SHBG 72/90 (the highest SHBG I’ve ever had…)
TSH 1.7/4
T4 12/15
T3 5/6
LH 6/8
FSH 4/19
PRL: around zero

Proper DHT and Free T measurement could probably come handy, the problem is that I couldnt find any labs here measuring those. Maybe checking liver functions…

Currently I take only quinagolide 75mg daily to zero out my PRL. Whether I still need it I don’t know, I’m just taking it to make sure… Men dont need PRL.

I have terribly high SHBG and because of this probably a bad Free T. The upper limit for SHBG is 90 here but I know that it is usually 50 or 60 for men and 110-120 for women where doctors live in the present and not in the ancient times.
Despite this I have at least weak morning woods and sometimes mild hornyness when I wake up and I can be turned on anytime, it just takes long minutes instead of a few seconds.

Overall I feel good and I’m in good shape and I’m strong again in the gym. The only symptom I have is the sexual dysfunction that clearly improves with every new month and I’m already “usable”. :slight_smile:

#5

I haven’t visited this thread for some time so I make a small update especially for the sake of some newcomers who may check out this thread. HCG proved to be quite effective in reviving me from totally dead state but if you can afford and you have the willpower then I would recommend doing a water fasting instead.

Although HCG can definitely give you a huge boost especially if you are totally ruined for some reason (like my inability to sleep) its effects seem to fade away in the next few months that follow. Although you may be able to keep a lot of gains despite the fade.

Water fasting is a more natural approach than stuffing yourself with pills and injecting hcg into your ass and it has proved to be superior in many areas in my case. While hcg could improve many of my symptoms water fasting could improve much more and it could completely eliminate a lot of them. A few things that were unaffected by hcg and improved/cured by water fasting:

  • Water fasting totally repaired my high blood pressure and heart rate. This may seem to be an irrelevant thing but it counts a lot in general.
  • Both hcg and water fasting can help you to shed fatty patches but water fasting helps you to shed ALL of your fat. Although hcg improved my performance in the gym this effect faded away slowly. Besides this hcg didn’t give some very important improvements I gained with fasting: ability to build muscle, good stamina for cardio and long workouts. While the gains of hcg were fading the fat was slowly coming back. Interestingly I haven’t really gained much weigh as a result of PFS, rather my body composition has changed (the fat/muscle ratio). With hcg I could shed off the fat and then gained it back, with water fasting I could shed off the fat and gained back almost the same amount of weigh as muscle (eliminating some ugly things too like pseudo gyno…).
  • About 2 weeks after the water fast my sleep quality has improved a lot. Even if I wake up its very easy to sleep back. The sleep quality is not yet perfect but it is quite near to the pre-PFS one and I can sleep 8+ hours and I don’t feel like crap in the morning and I can “half-sleep” a lot in the morning if I’m lazy. The sleep length and quality I gained with hcg was definitely not enough, I often woke up tired with high blood pressure and heart rate (and often I simply couldn’t sleep back).

Everything is relative. Its funny that in my previous post I thought that the only symptoms I have are sexual ones… :slight_smile: But hcg was really a huge improvement compared to the 2 year nightmare phase and I felt myself in heaven. After some time you simply get used to some annoying things and you overlook them (like bad sleep, fatigue, headaches, …). However the physical improvements I gained with water fasting are really impressive. My body composition was worse even the pre-PFS times then the current one. My stamina and physique was like this about 10+ years ago in high school. The sleep improvements are also impressive (but some of these gains may be partly the result of my new cleaner diet and the regular hard workout sessions that followed the fasting).

1 Like
#6

great job! I have a similar regime. A healthy diet, water fasting and sport. I’ve been following your progress. Keep it there!
Cheers

#7

Hey Everybody,

I’m not anymore active on this forum and I won’t be, but I think you would like to hear about the stuff I post here.

In the last half year my pussy centric thinking has returned. My balls remind me every day or other day to jerk off and I feel again a bit forced to watch good looking girls. I want to put mr. willy in their… I can fantasize about sex before going to bed and when waking up. About half year ago it happened only once every week or other week but it was gradually improving and now it’s a daily thing to deal with. I’m still pretty busy with other aspects of my life but a few days ago I started thinking about getting a girlfriend. It would be nice to have someone to cuddle and make love.

For me this was about 5 years off. In the first 3 years I was totally ruined and my condition got just worse and worse. I have been actively taking radical actions only in the last 2 years to take control of my condition. I’m not going to post my story here, you can search the forum if you are interested about it.

I’m not yet 100% as horny as before the drugs but everything is on a pretty good level. Before the drugs I was completely obsessed with pussies and I got a boner in seconds just from hearing others having sex. During sex I ejaculated pretty quickly that was a bad thing, now I have very good control over this.

My sleep is pretty good and refreshing. Even if I eat myself to death before going to bed, I wake up with totally empty stomach and my body feels really refreshed and strong. My body has regained its ability to keep the fat off, when I was ruined I gained fat rapidly.

I don’t have morning woods but instead of that I feel that mr. willy is puffy and something was going on during sleep. If I sleep only 2-3 hours then I often wake up with a half boner. I’m pretty confident in being able to get a boner in a hot situation, especially because the thought of a pussy simply makes me horny. When I’m masturbating my balls take control over my brain pretty quickly, my prostate sensation is there again, and my boner gets almost painfully rock hard in a few minutes. Yesterday after jerking off I had to run down to the shop before it closed so I had to go there with a rock hard boner because it usually takes about 5-10 minutes to go flaccid after an orgasm. Yes, my boner is that good.

Although I give no shit about my hair after this journey, a few of you might be interested in this topic. My hairline is about NW2.5-3 and it has stopped there. It may be a little bit receding very slowly but nothing serious. The drugs have stopped my hair loss and the last time I shedded a noticable amount of hair was when I put my health back on track. Of course it may happen that I start losing it again as my recovery proceeds but I’m not really interested in it. If I lose too much of it then I simply shave it to zero. Don’t hesistate to take serious actions even if it results in hair loss. Being bald is much better than living a shitty life. Being healthy is the most important thing.

For me it took huge effort and willpower but required surprisingly short time to regain an excellent (much better than average) physical condition from a very bad situation. (First with hcg, then water fasting + clean food + trainings.) After that it still took a relatively long time for my sex drive to return. Try to find a similar path for yourself. Get the physical aspects of your body under serious control, kill your time with doing useful things and wait for the rest to happen.

That’s all folks. Good luck for all of you.

#8

Good to hear. I have noticed the same things you have. Erections easier when sitting, symptoms better in the morning, etc.

Sometimes I will wake up with some libido and it will just die later on in the day. Or sometimes if I wake up with good libido it will get worse and worse throughout the day. I am rather certain that these things are the result of pelvic tension being worse while standing and awake. When my symptoms are at their worst, though, I wake up with zero libido since pelvic tension is high even when I’m sleeping.

I get the knee pain as well sometimes and it seems to be caused by interference in the joint due to muscle and fascia tension.

#9

This needs to be in Recoveries… Along with many other posts in member stories.

#10

yes, I agree.

#11

Hey, you say you did a water fast. I’m doing one right now, but I don’t have any medical assistance at all. I have a doubt: should I be supplementing electrolytes, as some sites tell me to? If anyone could help, I’d be very grateful.

#12

Never mind, I found the proper topic in Treatments & Protocols.

#13

Thanks so much for sharing. It’s great to read these kind of stories.

#14

wow this should be a recovery !

How much did the water fast help?

#15

Robotmouse hasn’t been back on the forum for a couple of years but it looks like he made a recovery using HCG. What do people make of this? Has anyone else tried it?

#16

I tried hcg made me feel like total shit and estrogen went through the roof and I had constant feeling of tingling in my nipples from gyno forming.

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#17

What happened to your gyno? Is it gone? Where there any pain too?

#18

It’s still there I think I developed actual breast tissue it’s really weird, my chest used to be chiseled before my pfs crash, the gyno/breast tissue started to develop during my crash though hcg made it worse then it went down again now but it’s still there regardless.