Hey @gents93, have you been alright? I hope you’re still managing well lately.
There was a rumor that he’s no longer with us. I hope not.
Wtf…who told u? U said this about @Damon as well.
I don’t think so. He replied a few months ago on this thread. I haven’t spoken to him since, but will shoot him a message.
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Where’d you hear that?
I sure hope he’s alright 
Sorry to hear of your experience. I notice a pattern while reading your story. You get worse when you increase androgens. I know you said this:
“use of SERMS, phytoestrogens, or endogenous increases of estradiol all led to the same outcome”
You could be right regarding your conclusion. But the thing is that the although the active ingredient in horny goat weed may contain phytoestrogens it may also increase testosterone. SERMS are probable acting as either an antagonist of either the estrogen receptor alpha (ERa) or estrogen receptor beta (ERb). As far as your conclusion that endogenous increases in estrogen makes you worse. I’m wondering if this is accurate or if it’s the increase in testosterone that makes you worse. In other words would the outcome be the same if you increased estrogen or agonized the estrogen receptors with a phytoestrogen without increasing androgens
It’s just a thought and I don’t know if I’m right. Over the years similarities have been seen in people who get PFS from Saw P and people who get PFS or post aromatase syndrome from taking AI’s. And the pattern seems to show androgens making us worse. These similarities make me wonder if PFS from
saw P and post aromatase syndrome from AI’s are similar.
For the record I took Dut and did not get PFS. I took saw P and got PFS. I took Clomid and armidex and got worse after having PFS. So our cases are similar. I also recently got noticeable improvements in ability to achieve and maintain erections from hops extract which is a phytoestrogen. Hops agonizes estrogen receptor alpha specifically. There is a a product called “4 DHEA” that a handful of us Saw p guys are getting some decent results from. I’m on a trial of it currently. So some solid clues here.
How are you doing now ?
There is a case of a guy on this forum who got post aromatase syndrome so bad . Poor guy . Don’t want to say anything else about that for now though . Just hope this guy is ok
What is your experience with aromatase, estrogen and the estrogen receptors ?
This concerns me. Especially when considering that in my experience estrogen clearly plays a large part in my own condition. Taking Arimidex worsened my condition years ago. It’s my understanding that the study you posted is saying that estrogen plays a role in protecting against Parkinson’s. Which suggests that generally speaking men have a higher chance of developing Parkinson’s compared to women. And that woman who have breast cancer take tamoxifen (nolvadex) to “block” the estrogen receptors in breast tissue they later develop a higher risk of getting Parkinson’s.
“Tamoxifen is the treatment of choice for patients with estrogen receptor- or progesterone receptor-positive breast cancer”
“In breast tissue, tamoxifen acts as an ER antagonist”
“When tamoxifen was launched as a drug, it was thought that tamoxifen would act as an ER antagonist in all tissues”
“A beneficial side effect of tamoxifen is that it prevents bone loss by acting as an ER [agonist] in other tissue”
What is it specifically that leads you to believe that your condition mimics symptoms of Parkinson’s? Did you also take fin or are all of your issues from Arimidex?
I got worse from Arimidex but never tested high in plasma calcium . I also had a hair test and years later my calcium in my hair test mineral analysis was low normal
Have you ever had Saliva estradiol tested ?
Plasma estradiol testing over the years and recent plasma estradiol shows my estrogen in the normal range suggesting that my aromatase enzyme is working.
What interests me is that my Saliva estradiol is low . And Saliva hormones are believed to show the amount of free hormones in this case the amount of estrogen not bound to SHBG. So if I’m producing normal amounts of blood estrogen and if high amounts of it is getting bound this suggests that it’s a regulation issue. Same thing with DHT that I see in my case.
I wonder if you have low Saliva (free) estrogen. I find it suspicious that a majority of my blood estrogen and DHT gets bound by SHBG or by another mechanism.
Also if we are peeing out high amounts of estrogen or DHT in our urine this could possibly be another indication that our bodies are trying to get rid of these things so they don’t bind to the receptors.
I’m flagged low in plasma 3b-diol which is a potent estrogen receptor beta (ERb) agonist. Spstricken is a Saw P-PFS victim who also has lowish 3b-diol. Maybe estrogen receptor beta is not getting agonized with 3b-diol. I don’t know just brain storming ideas. I’m trying to source 3b-diol so I can run a trial with it
I’m “managing” it okay.
Even though I am fully functional, I get worse every month.
I am nothing like I used to be before this, but I make due because that’s all you can really do in life just gotta roll with the punches. People are born with congenital diseases. I was lucky enough to have a full 23 years of amazing and privileged life. Time to make the best of what I am left with after developing this disturbing epigenetic/auto-immune disease.
Good luck guys.
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Sorry to hear of your experience. Glad to hear you are still fighting. Our experiences are similar with the aromatase inhibitor. I took the armidex after being in a Saw-PFS state and it made every sexual symptom much worse.
I also currently see some improvements in some of the sexual sides from things that increase estrogen and or agonize the estrogen receptors without simultaneously increasing androgens. I would hate to point you down a road that ends up making you worse so obviously proceed with caution and understanding that this is just my own experience. I do see some similarities in our experiences though.
Did you ever get insomnia or digestive issues ?
Pleased to hear from you @gents93. I wish there was better news all round, but it’s still good to have you check in, my friend.
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This makes sense. It’s likely you developed PFS via Saw Palmetto. Taking arimidex made your testosterone go up via a negative feed back pathway (Lower E, T goes up). Increases in Testosterone are often harmful towards PFS patients. This made you worse. Conversely increasing estrogen or activating its receptors lowers T or nulls androgen response to some degree, which would make you feel better. I advise AGAINST doing either. It’s better to keep things stable.
I made myself much worse by lowering my estrogen and then increasing it over and over again. I reckon if i didn’t do this i would still be very close to “normal” but unfortunately i’ve made myself permanently worse.
To answer your question, I only get dementia issues if I crash. Otherwise my mental clarity is extremely sharp still. Same thing with GI issues. If i crash I cannot eat and my metabolism gets extremely slow and i’m nauseous and feel like I have a ball sitting in my chest.
@Greek it’s good to see you here man. Keep doing what you’re doing. Shout out to the rest of the team, nice to see familiar people.
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I have literally the same symptoms, i was also using anastrazole? Do you feel any better now? I feel suicidal
Using AI when on 100mg/w Test… This is why it’s so important to educate yourself before starting to mess with hormones.
I really wish I did pre-Fin quality bloodwork. Hope you’ll start to feel better again @gents93
Hey @gents93 just wanted to check in again to see if you’re getting any improvements in symptoms since your last post? Also wanted to ask if you think this issue could possibly be affected by a deficiency in either pregnenolone or progesterone levels due to years of TRT without the use of HCG.
Have you had your levels of these upstream hormones checked since beginning your testosterone use?