This is some good news, but more importantly – how do you feel? How is your libido, ed, etc… are you getting horny now? Morning/nocturnal/spontaneous erections? Genital sensitivity increase?
Cheers.
I do feel somewhat improved: harder erections, I’m don’t have bouts of tiredness/weakness like I did (I assume this was low-T related - hard to really say I suppose). Also I have slightly more facial/body hair, and I have a little bit more hairline recession than I did pre-tamoxifen.
As for libido, I do get morning erections (as I always have), but I don’t get spontaneous erections and I definitely don’t just get aroused randomly. I mean, if I actively try to get myself aroused I can become aroused, but it won’t just happen on its own as it once did. I don’t know, maybe I’m just not an adolescent boy anymore (I’m 23 now).
I’m a believer in the importance of a healthy lifestyle too, so I’ve been lifting weights (though I did leave a few days before getting this bloodwork), and eating a diet high in meat, nuts, and vegetables. Also masturbating less seemed somehow to have an effect on my ability to get hard…but this is all just speculation.
Good to hear… so what’s your objective from this point forward? I assume you still consider yourself not fully recovered thus far.
Are there further treatments you will be undertaking with Dr. Crisler or is this it for you?
Yes, I understand where you’re coming from. Prior to Finasteride at age 25, I was always horny, and would get aroused very easily. Since the drug this is no longer the case, my sex drive is nowhere to be found and I don’t even think about sex, have the urge to masterbate, or have the lust/desire to chase after women anymore. It’s just brutal.
A guy at age 23 should definitely be able to get aroused easily, so I wouldn’t put it down to age… you know how you were before the drug!
Yeah galapagos, I agree with Mew.
I was 31 last year, and I used to wanna fuck any girl, and wanted to chase skirts every night, even when I wasn’t gettin none. Would beat off 3 times a day, and call chicks I couldn’t stand, because I was thinking with my dick.
Although now I wonder, if after I do recover fully, if it may be psychological for some time.
Last night I was with a girl, she invited me in, was sitting in her living room for a while, sitting on couch, didn’t really have much desire, worried for a minute, then stopped worrying. Then she invited me up to her room, still wasn’t into it for a while, started hooking up with her, worried for a minute, then thought not, “dont worry”, I started getting into it a bit, had to not worry much more, just went after it like I usually would, she started getting into it, then I did more. Got big and hard as a rock.
Yes, I believe some is hormonal, but once we do recover, there may still be a psychological aspect there for a little while untill we can get our imaginations, and mind, working well and healthy again.
Good luck guys.
Mew, try to get into Kama Sutra. Buy a book on it. It may be beneficial to you, and uplifting as well!
As for now, and Dr. Crisler agrees, I’m not going to do anything more than eat right, exercise, and not be too concerned with it. Keep in mind my case wasn’t nearly as severe either of yours, Mew and boston. I didn’t have the gyno, or the numbness, or any of that other stuff that speaks of real harsh effects from the drug. This was all brought on for me about a year after being off it when I found that getting hard with a girl was totally hit-or-miss, and I really noticed that I was just never thinking about sex. This was all reflected in my testosterone levels, and so I sought treatment.
A note about testosterone: from what I’ve read it appears that testosterone level is much more correlated with libido than it is with ability to have an erection. There was a study I can’t recall that showed that men could maintain erections perfectly fine at even low T levels. However, I think that libido is much more under the control of testosterone, which might explain why we might have no problem getting hard when it comes right down to it, yet find ourselves never lusting for sex like we may remember.
So that’s my plan for now. I’m at nearly 2 years off the drug right now, so hopefully with the help of the right lifestyle the improvement will only continue. Dr. Crisler told me that he’d order the blood tests whenever I’d like to check back in on my hormone status, and I do plan on doing so in a few months time. But the main thing I think is just not to get too concerned with it. I’m going to keep plowing through grad school for now, libido or not. If, in another couple of years, I’m not feeling recovered, I’ll continue to talk to Dr. Crisler (plus, not to mention, I’ll really have the money to do so). In the meantime though, because I really am quite healthy on the whole, I’m just going to make the most of things as they are and hope things take care of themselves.
Good luck with everything. Thanks for sharing the details of your adventure thus far, and hope you will keep us posted as to further improvements.
Question – did Dr. Crisler have any idea as to how Finasteride causes these problems?
Also, were there any bad side effects from the Tamoxifen that would prevent you from taking it, if you had to do it all over again?
Cheers.
I wouldn’t expect Dr. Crisler to be able to provide much insight about finasteride’s mechanism of action. When I first saw him, I threw out that early theory of ours about increased T and E causing a hypogonadism comparable to that which arises in ASIH (this theory is obviously flawed as it is actually DHT, not T, that is responsible for the negative feedback).
Anyways, the point is, Dr. Crisler is worth seeing not because he can provide any insight into the mechanisms at work (he is after all an “anti-aging doctor” not an endocrinologist) but because he is willing to accept that finasteride may cause hypogonadism, and he is willing to do what he can to help based on his own extensive experience dealing with bodybuilders.
The tamoxifen didn’t really give me any problems. Probably the most significant thing was that I got kind of a blurry smudge in my right eye a few times (probably 2-3 times while on it, then once a couple weeks off it, but not since). The smudge wouldn’t go away until I closed my eyes for a while or (oddly) drank some water. Just a minor thing, nothing that would cause me to regret having taken it.
Hey galapagos, your blood tests seem very similar to mine:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1255
I used fin for 3 years, then started getting sexual sides 8 months ago: low libido and barely any ejaculate. Been off fin for 8 months, and no recovery. My T, LH, FSH, and DHT are low.
Do you have any updates? Are you hornier these days? You were able to boost your T dramatically with the treatment you used so I’m wondering if that will work for me. Anything you recommend?
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Sorry, I’ve been on hiatus attending to school work and such.
I’m not really concerned about this any longer these days. I did have low testosterone, but it was never debilitating - I could still have sex, though I was chronically unable to really get hard and never got spontaneously aroused.
More recently I’ve noticed that I get morning woods consistently, and am much more able to get good erections. Also, amazing, I do get spontaneously aroused from time to time(I was really amazed when this happened). I’ve also noticed my ejaculate is much more forceful than it used to be. (Just to give you all the details.)
I’m not saying this had anything to do with the tamoxifen, necessarily, and I would even hesitate to say that I am “recovered” per se…I felt like weight-lifted was definitely beneficially (I was pretty hardcore in the gym for a solid three months), as was abstaining from ejaculation all together - but this is all purely anecdotal. But understand that my case was very mild, and was probably related to my tendency to become overconcerned with such issues in the first place.
Nevertheless, I was (am?) in fact hypogonadal as repeated hormone tests clearly demonstrated. I would get another T test at this point, but it costs $50 to see Crisler, and it’s really not worth it to me.
To answer some questions (if it’s worth anything at this point):
-The rhein test was done about 1.5 years after quitting, and cost something like $200 (covered by my BC/BS plan). It took two weeks to get results.
-body temp was nothing, I don’t think there was anything there, though I did observe it to be consistently low. T3/T4 tests, however, eliminated thyroid as a possible cause.
So the tamox regimine provided long term testosterone raising results? even after you quit?
This is what I have been trying to do. I believe this is a prostate injury/problem for most of us, that was caused by propecia and a long enough hormone imbalance to fuck it up.
And as evidenced by the prostate problems of almost half the people on this site, many of wihich see occasional glimpses of recovery, this further confirms the prostate injury.
So I have been feeling recently that if I eat very healthy, then my ejaculate is probably very good and healthy, and to keep that good stuf marinating in the prostate so to speak for months and months, kinda like what we did before we even knew what masturbating was, or while our bodies were developing into men, and before we were regularly sexually active, is probably very good for our prostate.
so there it is. This is what I’ve decided to try, since about 4 weeks ago, and I will try for a few months until maybe I find a girlfriend.
I sometimes still stimulate myself some, and will get to that point, but try not to ejaculate.
Peace
Your THB is mid range like mine…Mine on the 24 hour urine analysis is
THB: 121 (32-238)
5a-THB: 217 (135-588)
your 5a-THB is alot higher than mine though…Maybe you have less side effects than me, and that could be WHERE I’m lacking along with others on here…Gala, have you recovered? I haven’t seen you posted at all recently.
This is a good thing that Dr. Crisler does 24 hour urine analysis…
This THB is different than the THB for NOS activation that I was talking about in another thread. Please disregard what I just said in the above post.
Hi Galapogas
if you read this post, could you give some updates?
thanx
sps
I find it strange that guys like this just walk away from the forum and never log in again.
why is that hard to believe? he said his libido and erections were improving, so if he was doing better why stick around in this hell hole?
The reason he has not come back is because he admitted he had nothing wrong with him.
Thats despite numerous posts on this forum and despite paying to see Dr Crisler.