Hi,
I am new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has been in contact or had treatment from Dr. John Crisler (allthingsmale.com)?
I have low t from propecia. I have been on TRT for about 4 months and still have 0 libido. I have seen an endocrinologist. He and my GC deny that propecia did this and have no explaination for my continuing side effects other than anxiety. I have no real idea what is going on with me.
I would appreciate any good advice.
Thanks
Some guys from forum.mesomorphosis.com (MesoRX) have been seeing Dr Crisler for Propecia-related side effects. I myself may do the same at some point, or Dr. Shippens.
Forget your Endo/GC, you need to find ones that will work with you instead of wasting time.
You say you have no real idea of what is going on with you. Have you had the appropriate blood tests to check your current hormone status, as outlined in the Blood Tests section of this forum??
If not, you need to ASAP. Also, being put on Exogeneous Testosterone may eventually shut down your body’s own Endogenous production (leading to possible sterility – azoospermia… though might be reversible too once you quit TRT), not something you really want unless its the last option. Better to use TRT with hCG to keep your balls/semen working while you’re on it, if you are going that route.
A better route still would be to try and get your HPTA to start producing more ENDOGENEOUS Testosterone by trying hCG, Clomid or Nolvadex cycles… read up on MesoRX for more info in the Men’s Health section, there’s also a study in the “Drugs and Hormone Therapy” section of this forum about a bodybuilder kickstarting his HPTA with Clomid.
At this stage you should get blood tests to see what’s going on with your body, especially if you are being put on TRT… if you find you have high Estradiol, you may have to take other medications to lower it such as Arimidex… high Es may result from excessive T aromatizing into Estrogen, leading to further loss of libido/ed/gynocemastia issues.
These are just my opinions… we’re all in the same boat dude.
What is HCG?
I’ve been talking with Dr. Crisler’s assistant and made an appointment to see him next month. I also have an appointment to see a new Endo, but that’s not for another month. I will definitely everything tested. I don’t think my doctor or endo tested all of those things.
I’m a little shaky about seeing dr. crisler, I guess I don’t know much about him. I don’t know what a DO is oppossed to an MD.
What I do know is that I havn’t had anyone in the medical field take me seriously.
I did have a serious nervous breakdown which may have contributed to my current condition (0 libido, and no sensation in my dick). Since being on TRT I have no problem getting or maintaining an errection. My girlfriend and I have sex often, I just don’t feel excited at all, and don’t feel much in my dick. I do feel sensation when I have an orgasm. Not as intense as it should be.
I don’t know, I guess Im just trying to figure out if my lack of libido and sensation are due to my Anxiety/Depression or if it’s something else.
Has anyone else had a Serious persisting anxiety for months w/ major depression?
As have most of us… that is one part of the propblem, finding docs that can work with you to try and treat these side effects. Dr Crisler and Dr Shippens are 2 that at least recognize that Finasteride can cause these types of problems in men, hence why many recommend seeing them.
0 libido and no sensation is not due to nervous breakdown/anxiety. I also experienced/continue to experience the same thing, both while I was on the drug for 11 months and now 15 months since quitting. Anxiety/depression has since abated yet I still am not horny like I used to be and don’t feel excited when I’m with girls, less intense orgasms etc.
Libido issues are likely hormone (T, DHT, E etc.)/neurotransmitter (ie, dopamine etc) related, sensitivity likely due to low T/DHT and receptor/tissue atrophy (5ARII receptors are found in the penis) and tissue changes (smooth muscle to collagenous). See the studies in the Finasteride Studies section for more – particularly the “Effects of androgen deprivation on penile ultrastructure”.
hCG is a drug used to boost your own production of T… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chor … nadotropin
"In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS) cycles. When AAS are put into a male body, the body’s natural negative feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis).
High levels of AASs that mimic the body’s natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinizing hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes where it triggers the production and release of testosterone.
Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy (“shrinking testicles”). In males, hCG mimics LH and helps restore / maintain testosterone production in the testes.
As such, hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as endogenous testosterone production.
However, if hGC is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary."
Is this permanent or can it be reversed? I’m not sure about my tissue, my penis seems normal other than the loss of sensation.
receptor/tissue atrophy (5ARII receptors are found in the penis) and tissue changes (smooth muscle to collagenous).
I’m no medical expert but numerous reports in the Medical Research section of this forum correlate that when restoring T/DHT to proper levels, tissue atrophy/size reverses to normal. Sensation should also theoretically return.
Since you don’t have blood tests, you can’t say for sure that low T is the cause of your issues until you do.
Also… some men that have taken SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) for depression have reported similar sides to those that have taken finasteride - ie, genital numbness, lack of libido, erectile dysfunction etc – hence the issue could also be tied to neurotransmitters as well…
As a first step, you need to get blood tests as outlined in the FAQ of this forum. Then you can evaluate what you should do from there.
Mew,
Are those guys on MesoRX not members of this board? Why are they not on here?
Because when we come on to correct the bad advice you are getting from guys who have 1/100th the real world experience with PCT that we have we get questioned.
Guys like Hyo talk real smooth out of a medical book but ask him if he’s an MD or how much real world experience he has with PCT.
Incorrect, we would prefer more options rather than one man’s opinion. If you have experience with PCT and what should be taken to correct Propecia related sides after quitting, by all means share your advice.
Wether that is not using HCG or not taking Danazol as proposed by Hypo, that’s fine. Please provide us with your insights as to what drugs should be taken.
THanks!
Give me your specific situation, T, Free T, Shbg, E2, Lh, FSH, etc Also include if you are on TRT or if you tried it what you used, dose/duration.
Hcg can be an important part of PCT but you don’t use it if you have normal T levels as your testes are alreading working fine (like the other guy where hypo reccomeded HCG)
I have said it before, your problems go well beyond T levels, SHBG, E2, etc. Those are easilly corrected
My specific tests are listed in the Hormones and Blood Tests section, I will be getting more within the next few months – a complete panel includiong DHT, SHBG, Prolactin etc.
I have not taken TRT or any further drugs since quitting Finasteride 16 months ago.
My ED/libido loss/reduced ejaculate/penile + teste shrinkage/loss of tissue sensitivity continues to this day. Minor brain fog as well.
Also, could you please share with us who you are, your background and what your experience with treatments are? Thanks.
20 years using steroids without any side effects and a t level of 750 off drugs. Have designed cycles, Pct and nutrition for over 50 of competitive athletes and probably 500 gym rats.
So what are your T and LH levels as well as E2 in American standards. What have you tried to fix your problems
Jim1234… I mean “lou123” from MesoRx… 
you can find my details here:
forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-hea … 48316.html
Since you already replied to my above thread on MesoRx, you already know my history.
I still need to get bloodtests as I said, and I have an appointment with an Endo next month. If he will not give them, I am paying for them myself.
I will then post both here and on Meso to see what next steps should be.
Hope that helps. Glad to have you here, even if we got off to a rough start.
Close, Lou asked me to come help you guys. He said he couldn’t take the Hypo guy and left.
Those blood tests you need are well over $1,000. If your endo won’t order them find a new one. Where do you live ?
If guys need help point them to Meso, 15 or so guys who can really help you but Lou told me he doesn’t believe it’s a cut and dry HPTA problem, he thinks there is much more to it
I ended up not seeing dr. chrisler. My father talked me out of it. Wether or not it was a good Idea, I’m not sure.
I am still seeing a new Endo next week. What approach do you suggest I take with him? What areas or tests do you think I should focus on? I am already prepared to be shot down by him.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Why did he talk you out of seeing Dr. Crisler? He seems to have seen several sufferers like ourselves.
I have yet to hear about just ONE person getting proper TRT treatment from an endo. I think you are wasting your time, and should see Dr. Crisler instead. Unless you fall below the ranges, I believe your endo will refuse to treat you and write you off as "normal. Should you be “lucky” enough to have really abnormal numbers, he will propably put you on shots with 14 days in between, and no hcg.
Anyways, its your choice…
JH
I agree with Legend. You should get back on the phone to Kim and book it again. You would be the first person I have ever heard of who gets treated properly by an endo and Ive met a LOT of hypogonadal men on the net.
Dr Crisler has experience with finasteride and also shares information with Dr Shippen. He is open minded and compassionate about finasteride side effects, unlike most other doctors who simply dont understand hormones. You cant ask for much more than that in a doctor.
For your sake I hope you change your mind.
inneedofhelp, have you got any blood work done yet? Surely your doctor must have done some follow up labs? Or have I missed them somewhere here on the forum? Can you get them/post them on here?
I have virtually the same response to TRT (so far) as you. I can get an erection no dramas, but there is still no libido and not much sensation.
There are some really close patterns in a lot of our blood work as far as hormones are concerned. Not quite right total T levels, low LH and FSH…theres gotta be somthing in it.