So Propecia results in higher Progesteron because DHT is being lowered, correct?
Does Saw Palmetto have the same effect on Progesteron?
DHT inhibitors lead to elevated progesteron. THis is the problem of many people here “elevated progesteron” despite discontinuing finasteride including me myself.
When I was at the begining of my hairloss problems I used to treat myself with saw palmetto, but it was not powerfull enough for me to increase it significantly.
This might be rather individual.
Majkellos, a lot of us has elevated progesterone. That is correct, my bloodtest shows it is high above range, in my case.
How to bring back progesterone to the normal levels? Would it naturally return, when we will take care for liver?
I found some info on things that can be anti-prog, but right now I’m very far from taking any pills. Especially like Mifepristone, which is abortion drug.(I think you already mentioned about that in one of your post).
Onapristone is the other one, but I didn’t find too much info about it. I also read, Nolvadex can sometimes help.
But I really believe it is not necessary for us to take more shit.
It seems DHT opposes Progesteron, increase in DHT will likely lower progesterone.
Increase T will also increase DHT.
I am not sure about that. What if you have low level of 5ar2 and you do not convert too much T to DHT?
You do not have to guess… Elevated progesteron is the most important sign of 5AR defficiency. It is elevated because your body cannot convert it further to its metabolites. Body tries harder then to get more metabolites and produce more and more of it.
That’s why you have to put attantion to your life style and sleep pattern to help your body reproduce 5AR in your cells. Your body is so sensitive that you may fuck the whole recreational process doing a single mistake. This is how I feel it right now.
It is very difficult and I am not sure if everyone here with a strong psychological imbalance can handle that. I try very hard not to smoke, not to drink, no caffeine, no sugar, incresing my sleep quality and I am getting progress.
But I am still far far away from being like I was before.
Saw palmetto would rather not elevate progesteron because the mechanism of saw palmetto action is rather different. Saw binds to the androgen receptor and prevent DHT from functioning in the receptor site. So it does not necesserely interfere with 5AR and DHT itself. You have to distroy 5AR to create this f***k up.
I still wonder how it could be possible to sell Propecia and Dutasteride for whatever reasons knowing that it is such a dangerous drug, that may alter your hormons. I also wonder how these devils from Merck/Glaxo did really pass FDA when this mechanism of possible hormonal imbalance is very logical, not only on paper, but as we can see in reality.
On the other hand I always knew that companies will sell you shit if you pay for that, but I did not necessarely realize that pharma works the same way, cause it is more about life then making you fart all night due to some spoiled soup. And I was wrong.
Majkellos, could you point some info about this ‘sleep pattern’? I’m not sure if I’m reading correct things that I get from google.
Anyway, it is very likely in my opinion, that sleep is significant in our cases. When I wake up, I usually have quite ok morning erection. I can keep it for a long time, sensations in penis and connection are good (almost very good). Then, I can sleep more, wake up after half an hour and still have erection. Another half an hour of sleep, another erection after awakening. I would guest, that I keep for so long one and the same erection. But then, I start my day, bathroom, breakfast, I go to work and in the meantime everything ‘goes down’. Difficulties with achieving erection and weak connection with penis.
Peres. I am working now on a recovery method based on Paul Waters recovery protocol.
Not the GHB tretment because it is much better to fight for your sleep quality by going to the gym regulary and eating well. I do not see any use in going on GHB. GHB is simply the another pill, so I do not see any point in doing this, because there is no magical pill that most people wait for here.
I am more interested in his second part of theory, which gave him the real long term and full recovery, based on the immune system break down causing leaky gut syndrom making a toxic reaction to your body via digestion system.
Actually when this all shit hit me my first impression was that I am going through some toxicity.
Read this:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … ight=#2821
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … ight=#2839
And finaly read this, it is in polish and when I read this I thought this is simply my story, but it is not. It is about Candida and leaky gut associated with that.
zapper.w.interia.pl/candida.htm
I did my stool/urine/blood tests for all peptites, candida and other bacteria that may be responsible for that.
100% the same. Problems start when you eat your breakfest, dinner etc… like a standard day protocol. You do not eat during night and in the morning your leaky gut is less stressed and you feel almost like normal… I know what you mean. Then you eat your breakfest and you start the game again…
I am sorry majkellos, but most of your input is pure jibberjabber for me:(
Edit: Did not mean to offend you, am not saying you couldn’t not be right.
I do not mind. Paul Waters was also critisized hear as if he was a Merck Representative. I do not mind because my jibberjabber starts working for me as I can see what triggers bed reaction and this is preety much the same what Paul Waters was explaining while he was accused of being payed by Merck.
Some of people here will make a progress on jibberjabber theories.
I wish you were able to read this polish text about Candida - CRC = Candida Related Complex
Try to find something about that in english.
Onni, do you have a better theory?
So far, most things that ‘should’ help, didn’t work for me. The only thing that is really bad in my bloodtests is progesterone - majkellos writes bout it all the time. Second thing not in ranges are bilirubines, indicating that I should take care of my liver. It doesn’t sound to me like a jibberjabber. It has sense.
If this is correct, we will see. At least I try. What else can I do? What can I lose? The only side-effect is that I have healthier lifestyle right now:)
Thnx. Now work out what is with your digestive system…
Check your bacteria/peptites via blood/urine/stool and find a lab where you can make a direct anti candida test.
This whole fuck up is connected one to another and works like domino… one thing triggers another.
What the f***k is jibberjabber. Never heard of it?
I highly disagree with you on that one. Yes I do feel Candida may have some play as to part of the problem, but I can assure you that Paul Walters got better because he did in fact take GHB. The candida stuff he did at the end was just icing on the cake. Have you read any of the studies linking GHB with 5AR activity. And I can also assure you that GHB/Xyrem is by far more effect for inreasing deep level 3 and 4 sleep, which is vital for deep tissue repair than simply going to the gym and working out. They use it as a sleep drug lol it increases GH levels up to 16 times what they normally are for the average person while sleeping. I was working out like a mad man when for months when I first got off the drug and that didnt do shit for my sleep. I suggest you do some research GHB isn’t simply some other pill it is a pretty amazing drug. Also, since the adrenals are chronically fatigued the deep sleep that you’re getting from ghb at night helps take the stress off of them, and from there the body can recover thats the main reason why you feel better after sleeping. Trust me trying to cure candida isn’t going to do sh*t unless you have some way of taking the pressure off the adrenals first.
I agree with you that taking GHB might be helpfull and propably it helps in getting back to normal pretty fast.
But from my point of view the major issue (at least in my case) is to bring back my digestive mess and getting rid of this chronic alergic reactions that I have to most of the foods that I eat.
These alergic reactions might be caused by bacterial/peptites imbalance and the toxic reaction caused by the leaky gut.
I think that taking care of my sleep pattern ( I increase it with Melatonin 10 mg/day), curing my digestive system will help my 5AR to recover. It might be the long term process, but I already have some some progress with that.
This is also very impotant not to mess around with any hairloss shampoos or anything that might impact 5AR. IF your gaul is to rebuild your 5AR you have to adapt to the hairloss without doing anything against it. I think there are still some people here who still use anti-hairloss products who think they can bounce back without cutting on anti-hairloss products, even those natural or simply cosmetics.
I’m not sure about this one (at least, in my case).
I tried two opposite scenario:
-I didn’t eat anything in the evening, went sleep, woke up after peaceful sleep (morning erection), didn’t eat breakfast and my sexual ‘energy’ went down anyway.
-I ate late-evening meal, ate right before sleep, woke up(also morning erection). Then I ate breakfast and returned to bed. Slept another hour and woke up. Morning erection. After 15minutes of walking around my house, bath etc. everything again went down.
So, the output was similar, no matter if I ate a lot or not.
Maybe system doesn’t react so quickly and it is not important if you ate 2 or 8h ago, but rather overall condition ?
On the other side, you had much stronger and faster response after eating half of pizza. But each of us react differently, each case is somehow unique.
Yes, but my sugestions does not mean that I get any real progress from eatin or not eating.
I am still stuck like you and most others, I only noticed that there are some differences whether you eat a lot, or just a little. It does not mean in any way that I bounced back or something.
I think that the general problem is the same for all of us no matter if it is progesteron imbalance (different sensitivity from one day to another), receptors insensitivity, 5AR defficiency. It might also be H-P problem, Hypothalmus may send some incorrect sygnals to Pirituary due to gonadotropin defficiency (migh be associated with progesteron imbalance), then Pituary does not release enough oxytycine which boosts brain/prostate 5 alpha reductase activity.
There must be a reason why you do not get this normal, healthy DHT boost during sexual stimulation and this is one of the above, or one causing another (progesteron may not be converted due to 5AR defficiency for example).
I wonder why Merck deny to do any tests.