Does lifestyle on propecia make the consequences worse?

General Discussion
#12

I’m revisiting this topic because I think my stressful lifestyle might have made things worse when I quit.

Here’s a link about stress causing epigenetic marks on the hippocampus (very interesting given that it looks like we underwent some sort of epigenetic change while on or immediately after fin):
newswire.rockefeller.edu/?id=1002&page=engine

'Richard Hunter, a postdoc in Rockefeller University’s Harold and Margaret Milliken Hatch Laboratory of Neuroendocrinology, found that a single 30-minute episode of acute stress causes a rapid chemical change in DNA packaging proteins called histones in the rat hippocampus, which is a brain region known to be especially susceptible to the effects of stress in both rodents and humans. The chemical change Hunter examined, called methylation, can either increase or decrease the expression of genes that are packaged by the histones, depending on the location of the methylation. He looked for methylation on three regions of histone H3 that have been shown to actively regulate gene expression.’

I took fin for a few years with at times bad sides but recovered when I quit. The final time I had problems at work, was living alone away from home in a small apartment and a week before quitting got beat up on the subway (too fogged to fight back in retrospect), and was near the end of a long dark winter. Could stress have made me more likely to crash and get very bad symptoms?

#13

No.

#14

Mew I know you only blame the drug but how does that explain me stopping and starting before. Did I just get unlucky this time? Look at my cortisol readings for crying out loud!

#15

How about unbalancing your hormonal structure once, you tolerated it but were never normal again, and the second time you took it your body couldn’t rebalance? Moreover you may have rebalanced but it doesn’t mean your liver and kidneys were intact and starting the poison again may have caused your body to overreact and overproduce enzymes to rid itself of fin, and when you stop fin your body doesn’t adjust a second time or it’s remaining ready to excrete it again.

#16

our root problem is 5AR inhibitor use---->endorine disruption. That is it. Looking for problems somewhere else is sheer waste of time.

#17

Precisely.

However, for men suffering side effects which do not resolve after quitting, it is plausible we have a certain genetic disposition to the 5AR inhibition/lowering of DHT that other men do not, which causes these issues.

#18

But how does that explain the many men that quit and recovered beforehand?

#19

genetic variation.

#20

Can you explain that?

#21

sure. we are all born with different building blocks called “genes” which is why my eyes are hazel, and yours might be blue. this is why some people are tall, and some are short. this is why some people get fucked by a medication, and some don’t.

#22

The point I’m making is how was I genetically susceptible to crash if I quit fin at least twice and returned to normal, indeed the last time I quit all round mental, physical and sexual energy went thru the roof. I’m thinking I went on again too soon and some of my hormones were still out of whack, plus behavioural and environmental factors influence hormonal levels.

#23

this can be explained by an epiginomic adaptation - see awors theory of methylization.

#24

ok!

#25

If it’s of any help to you, my father took fin for over 5 years and had no dramas whatsoever.

I dont beleive this is a genetic predisposition, and not because of the above. I just beleive this is an individual metabolic problem that needs to be nutted out one person at a time.

Too often doctors pull the “its genetics” card. Its used as an excuse when they dont know what else to say IMO. Sure a lot of familys have similar disease patterns - but they also grew up eating the same food from the same table in the same environment. Its more environmental and diet based IMO.

#26

I agree on the gentics question, it doesn’t explain how I had a textbook recovery at least twice. Perhaps I was still out of hormonal balance as I stopped and started again within a few weeks.

#27

I dont think anyone can answer that yet Lucky. But the fact that you made a full recovery twice tells me that this is some kind of accumulating problem more so than a swift irriversable blow to your man hood. A bit of wishfull thinking here on my part? Maybe. But I cant help but wonder if some of these issues are metabolic issues that we’ve had pre-fin, where fin just pushed us over the edge. Probably by excessive estrogen due to lowered DHT.

Also the fact that a lot of guys just recover over time tells me this is not irriversible, but rather its just a matter of finding out what exactly went wrong for each individual case. One thing is for sure and that is a lot of guys on here sound like they have liver/toxicity problems (and im not just referring to copper here).

#28

For fuck’s sake.

#29

I would have crashed no doubt but consuming alcohol made a bad situation worse. Other guys report that things got bad after a night drinking; proscarred, onni, mikey428.
Beer increases estrogens and decreases testosterone, if your T:E ratio is already out of wack and in a state of flux when you stop that’s asking for trouble.

Here’s an old thread which details the impact of alcohol on the hormonal system.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=162&p=593&hilit=carruthers#p593

Any bodybuilder would see it as insanity to stop a cycle then get drunk rather than do a PCT afterwards.
Also, inital blood tests showed a very high SHBG which has since come down a lot.
But J89 I don’t think liver toxicity has anything to do with what I personally am going through now, my body isn’t responding to androgens for whatever reason.

#30

x 2

#31

?