Great thread. I just crashed and my exams did show high level of progesterone and dhea, aswell as cortisol. I really think that we are getting closer to a possible treatment. The best part is that these findings are going to help a ton of men, not just pfs suffered.
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Many guys tried to go on and off trt with no success. Also many guys here have low T and high E, myself included. I’m too brain fogged to understand all the science talk, but doesn’t that kind of go against this theory?
19 … absolutely great thread. people should be really be reading this. Send me a pm pls
I think I pretty much did this. I was on T from late '12 though September '13, then went off for four months and watched my T levels plummet back to the bottom 10%. Then in December '13 I tried a round of natural T-boosters and felt a brief sexual improvement (not nearly as a dramatic as the initial T dose, though) that quickly faded out. I was then off T and all T-boosting products for most of '14, then tried T injections again late in the year. This time: Zero response. So for me, the pattern I’ve noticed after 3+ years of this is one of diminishing returns. My first T shot brought me all the way back. It was amazing. But I’ve never gotten that benefit again, even after letting my T levels crash and starting over.
19, id like to chat to you on skype. I have made a discovery with clomid.
One dose of clomid 12mg made my androgens work again, my voice dropped within the hour. I took proviron and it worked when in the past it never worked. I was then flooded with some sort of estrogen and lost the effects from the clomid.
I think SERMS need to be looked at. and i mean doses of nolva 5mg once every 2 weeks. It had a dramatic effect. Everyone overdoses on them
im stopping trt soon.
There are many many guys on here that:
Took fin for years with little to no sides. Some more than 10 years. Many quit and went back on numerous times with no problems. Till one day something broke and they crashed. One guy said he thought fin was just like water for the 12 years he was on it.
There are guys on here that quit fin recovered then months later crashed some became hypersexual before they crashed. One guy crashed 7 months after quitting fin.
So if you are talking about the individual cells being changed why would they all suddenly change months after fin has left the body? These people were feeling recovered? If every one of their androgen responsive cells is damaged how could they feel normal for 7 months?
For me I took fin for about 4 weeks or so in total. First 3 weeks no problems and grew more hair. Then i feel liido flickering, the next day it was higher than ever. Then the day after that my penis was numb. I quit the drug a week later never to recover.
Pretty much every androgen responsive cell in my body is affected.
All my hair cells on my head. I am no longer suffering from hairloss.
All my cells that grow facial hair. My facial hair grows more slowly.
All my muscle cells. I find it almost impossible to gain muscle since having that crash.
My purity I have low free T but my LH levels are not increasing.
My cells which produce body odor. My body odor changed since my crash.
All my fat cells in my hips. Instead of being able to gain muscles I gain fat on my hips.
My gums. My gums receeded a little after I crashed and when I feel worse my gums hurt more.
My teeth. My teeth became sensitive after I crashed and remain sensitive.
My body hair. My body hair has not increased but yet my father has much more than me.
So all in all this must be a billion cells that are affected. Why would suddenly a billion cells all break down at the same time? The chances of each individual cell changing at the exact same time must be one in a billion or more.
It is the same situation for those others who have been on and quit and felt fine. Why would suddenly overnight in some cases a billion cells all become damaged or changed. This is simply not feasible.
How would billions of cells suddenly become damaged all at the same time months after quitting the drug?
On top of this. When I started TRT once I felt a massive improvement in pretty much all my symptoms which lasted 7 days. If all my cells are damaged how would they respond to TRT for this time?
On top of this it seems my saliva progesterone ranges are many times the range.
A much more simple explanation would be that one cell broke and started hyperproducing some metabolite which has affected the behavior of the billions of hormonally responsive cells in the body.
This would mean that you could be fine on fin and quit as many times as you want. But once the cell becomes damaged and starts hyperproducing you will be totally fine. This could happen at any time. Perhaps it may be more likely to happen when your body is in a weak state such as from excessive drinking, stress etc.
I will never accept any theory which states millions of cells are directly damaged by PFS. It seems almost totally impossible. We should focus on ideas that are more plausible.
We know 5ars cause leydig cell adenomas in mice and dut causes them in rats. The adenomas do not seem to be producing T as t levels were not increased in these rats. So what are these adenomas producing?
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Any updates 19?
I took 500mg resveratrol today