Especially when the official Mew/Awor research proposal states it as a 5ar inhibitor syndrome from all 5ar inhibitors and specifically says saw palmetto, accutane, and finasteride and not only finasteride.
That was interesting to me because saw palmetto is a weaker anti-androgen than fin. My assumption is that saw palmetto is less likely to break the camel’s back that gets one into this state that we’re all investigating. For example, you might need more mutations in the methylation pathway enzymes (methylation pathway is just one hypothetical) to react to saw palmetto.
That might be controversial, but don’t let it upset anyone… we’ve certainly seen saw palmetto cause the same issues as fin.
Droit, if MTHFR was an issue then my homocysteine would be elevated and mine is not.
That statistic sounds familiar, but I don’t remember where from. Just from looking at the link of the folate cycle and the methylation cycle in the below slides (See slide titled ‘Methylation cycle and associated biochemical pathways’), I could see how the methylation cycle could get backed up with a weak folate cycle leading to high homocysteine.
iaomt.media.fnf.nu/networks/iaom … art_1R.pdf
If there is some literature that says homocysteine would be high with your SNP, then maybe at one point in your life it may have been. But these systems are complex and we are deep into an unusual state. What I do know is: from the sequence of your DNA, you have a weak MTHFR - but don’t take offensive, its not too uncommon.
I think a more thorough analysis would have be done of your SNPs to see if your levels fit with the rest of your SNPs.
droit,
Both my C677T’s have mutations, but my A1298C is normal. I’ve had moderately elevated homocysteine, which is why I ran the genetic test.
For the record, I never took saw palmetto, but did take fin for over a year.
Be curious as to your thoughts in folic acid vs. methylfolate vs methylcobalimine supplementation in my case.
kaz, can you tell me your results on this:
CBS C699T snp: rs234706
CBS A360A snp: rs1801181
CBS N212N snp: rs2298758
moonman, per your mutation on CBS A360A:
heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
you can read more on this particular mutation on the page.
moon, have you tried showing your results to any methylation doctors? or pursued any treatments in this area? it’s obvious some stuff is going on here that is a problem…
kazman,
Thank you for posting this data - I hope we can get more for the others on this forum. My understanding is that if you have C677T (even worst 2 C677Ts), you have to supplement active folate (methylfolate) to have good health - and specifically stay away from folic acid since un metabolized folic acid will compete with methylfolate for receptors.
If you didn’t have PFS, and no other mutation in the methylation pathway than C677T, I don’t know if you have to supplement the active B12s.
However, I’m betting that this late in the game, you and me, have a block in the methylation pathway and thus we need to supplement active B12 to reboot it (the ‘methylation block’ is a working theory).
I started taking methylfolate, Adenosyl-B12 and Methyl-B12 (both B12 as a sublingual in the upper lip for 45 minutes) after I came across the material I linked in viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7178
There is a popular guy on the phoenixrising forum named ‘freddd’ who seems to have the worst collection of methylation pathway genes ever. He said before he figured this out, he neurosystem was a wreck… he couldn’t walk.
Then he started supplementing all the things his body couldn’t activate (B12’s and folate) and he said was like his body woke up.
This thread is very much where I’ve been living the last five months.
Until this week, I suspected my symptoms were caused not by fin, but by CFS/ME. So I spent a lot of time at Phoenix Rising last summer, studying Rich Van Konynenburg and many others studying the methylation cycle. Problems here have been correlated with numerous diseases.
In August, I did the Methylation Panel (and other tests). Most of my folate/SAM cycle intermediates were just below or just above the “low” threshold. Reduced glutathione was under the threshold, while oxidizedwas high-normal. Note that I’m homozygous on MTHFR C677T. (I realize this won’t mean much to most of you, but I’d be happy to talk through it if anyone is interested.)
The bottom line is, when your reduced glutathione level is below threshold, you have a problem. Your body either has too much oxidative stress, or you aren’t producing enough glutathione to counter it. Either now or ten years from now, this will lead to disease. And if you’re homozygous on MTHFR C677T (10% of the population is), you again have a problem worth addressing, which might extend your health.
So I began supplementing, using Rich’s Simplified Methylation Protocol (B12/5-MTHF are the critical components). It had the appearance of helping me pull out of the extreme fatigue I had in June-August. I now mostly have my physical energy back. I’ll probably still re-test in 1-2 months, to see if my levels have improved.
I don’t know if methylation cycle issues are related to PFS or not. On one hand, this cycle has tremendous reach across critical cell functions. On the other, it’s so generalized that my feeling is that it wouldn’t by itself be the genetic differentiator that characterizes us. I think it should be included in any disease’s root cause investigation, but shouldn’t be the only place you look.
Moonman, I wanted to point out something from your results… your test results show a real biotin shortage, but I don’t see the doctor’s notes indicating this? Your beta-hydroxyisovalerate is through the roof, and it’s a specific marker for biotin status. The B6 insufficiency note marked on the page only refers to the xanthurenate.
FYI.
kazman,
What is interesting is this mutation data would be relevant to you even before you took Finasteride (whether there be a correlation or not). Did you have any health problems before Fin? Anything unusual?
Donate to the PFS foundation instead, we are going to get no where if we could doing this.
this is looking into methylation problems on the genetic level, the exact same shit awor is looking at. $99 is a pretty small price compared to $xxx,xxx awor is asking for, which i’m sure is going to good places, but no information into what he’s looking at.
there are many methylation doctors around the country that investigate this type of shit… if anything, this should be an avenue to be investigated before all the research to see if these genetic problems can be fixed through the resources and methylation doctors available right now before we go all out into finding a cure for something that may all ready have treatment options?