Mew thanks a lot, it’s exactly what I was looking for. I read the forum (i even been sneaking in to find out news for years as well) but I couldn’t make up my mind on exactly what to test. Do you think 3alpha-diol G could be a good indicator?
I had several exams already but I would like to redo them, as it’s been a while.
THETIGERSHULL: I suspect I have PFS, or a low grade PFS, if that’s possible (anything is possible, right?) because:
- I quit propecia after 5 weeks usage, at 22 years old, because of gyno which hasnt fully resolved. i’m 29 now.
Blood exams at 22 (from memory):
(1st/2nd exam) - Testosterone 490’s (300-900) - that’s low-mid range value?
(1st exam) - Prolactin: 17 (3-15) Upon quitting - that’s over limit
(2nd exam) - Prolactin: 14 (3-15), a couple months after quitting - that’s high end.
I was very anxious about it at the time and I been to 3 endocrinologists. One wanted me to take something but I asked second opinions to the other 2 who, looking at the 2nd blood exams said all was fine and I tried to forget aboutthis.
I then developed Insomnia, around a year later. I only invested more time on dealing with it at 27 as it gradually was getting worse. So:
Blood exams at 27 (from memory):
- Testosterone 484 (300-900) - that’s low-mid range value?
- Prolactin: 12 (3-15), a couple months after quitting - that’s high end.
Basically these are my symptoms and they have been getting worse with years:
- I have a lot of sleep maintenance problems. I have been to specialists and tried around 10 diff meds and none works either withouth sides or for a long time.
- During trial and error of meds for sleep I have developed something that seems to be connected to low dopamine, a variant of PLMD. This could maybe go hand in hand with my mid-high Prolactin level?
- I am indeed slightly depressed but I’m not sure this has not always been the case for some years now! (I know this and sleep go hand in hand but so does Depression-Insomnia and reduced levels of Testosterone… remember that’s why Im trying to rule out PFS).
- Regarding libido there seems to be an issue too as I don’t seem to have wet dreams anymore, no spontaneous erections, reduced sexual imagination, and I don’t feel so much hurge to find sex anymore! If it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen, what’s the prob… Again, I know this can be either reduced Test or Depression.
- I also don’t have that hunting feeling anymore that makes you go chasing girls. Just seems pointless now!
- I had problems performing this year but that could have been linked to lack of energy and not being attracted so much to that girl…
- I think I have problems with social situations.
- My gyno, though reduced, is still here and if I squeeze the nipples white fluid comes out…
- mood is not what it used to be either
Anyway, I’m going to test for this stuff again and include some new tests, before I start taking low dose anti-depressants that my GP gave me for anxiety…
At the moment I am just eating better (cutting out simple sugars, eating hemp seeds in the morning and flax seeds at night), lifting weights and doing HIIT. I try to sleep better but it’s not always possible.
I remember one guy saying he is from Portugal. I did a search and his nickname is Rungekutta. The thread he opened is “Problems only after withdrawal.”
Low 3adiol g and psa levels. As fas as symptoms vary among individuals. Most common are low libido,disturbed sleep and dry skin
One question and one observation.
Q: At any time since you felt the onset of your symptoms, did you have the common rebound, or DHT surge that many guys who have crashed often experienced? This is usually a short-lived resolution of side-effects and then a noticeable hormonal crash or return to full side effects. I experienced a 2-day rebound where my libido was crazy high with no ED, then I crashed. However, I don’t think everyone with PFS has had this rebound or surge.
It seems odd that your insomnia did not occur until a year into what you believe to be PFS. I know there is no one-size fits-all experience with PFS, but from most of the sleep-related posts that I have read, it seems insomnia is one of the earliest observable sides. It surely was for me.
Keep up the lifting and HIIT. I think these were the 2 things that have helped me the most.
So, I’ve been to my local blood exams laboratory and turns out its super expensive if the GP doesn’t cover it. I asked him for vitamin D evaluation last time and he told me it was not covered by social security…which is not true!
I’m afraid if I test it on my own I’ll spend around80€ for Vitamin D3, 3-Alpha Diol G and PSA.
At the time of onset of my symptoms I didnt experience the insomnia I have now. I may have experienced unrefreshing sleep but I know I was very anxious at that time. But nothing else.
I also dont have the classical signs of hypogonadism that everyone seems to complain of.
I’m just afraid propecia unbalanced my hormonal levels since my I still have puffy nipples, a little chest fat and some mass behind the nipples. And when I check my prolactin levels they are always on the top of the range.
But I guess the gyno once settled in, never disappears?
Maybe I don’t have anything related to propecia, seing as i didnt experience insomnia at onset of symptoms or any hypogonadism ?
Man i am afraid that if you took propecia, stopped, and then developed symptoms of any nature, then it is propecia-related. Symptoms vary from person to person and if you dont have signs of hypogonadism consider yourself lucky. Some people have only mental symptoms. If you just fear that you only got hormonal imbalance from propecia keep in mind that a simple hormonal imbalance will resolve in short time. The problem with propecia is more than that unfortunately. It has to do with oxidative stress and depleted neurosteroid levels and if you dont deal with those effectively, only time can help you recover.
If you have to pay for your bloodtests, the most useful would be vitamin D, if its low (even in normal range) then your test and free test are low too. Psa levels indicate androgen activity in your body, as the prostate is sensitive to them and a really low level could show little androgens fluctuating your body. If you have developed gyno then you have high estrogen and prolactin. you could test for E2 to see.Alternatively, you could test your shbg to see if you have high estrogen,if its high then estrogen is likely high. Moreover, low 3adiolG shows that your body does not metabolize testosterone as it should. It could be useful to check for your adrenal functioning too, cortisol, acth,progesterone, androstenedione,dhea.
Also, monitor your body, dry skin, black circles under eyes, water retention on face, wrinkles under your eyes, thinning of the skin, prominent veins in your penis, curvature, brittle hair, slow growth of hair/beard, reduced ear wax, depersonalisation, low libido,memory problems, unrefreshing sleep, lack of dreams . Those are propecia related symptoms.
If you want my advice, take a look on the glutathione thread by member droit.just been to a neurologist who finally prescribed me pregabalin. he’s supposed to be one of the best in my country.
i will be reporting what happens with these 3 medications he gaveme to try (one at a time of course)
by priority:
- mianserin
- gabapentin
- pregabalin
pregabalin is useful in CFS as it increases slow wave sleep.
slow wave sleep releases HGH which is lately been shown to cure many things including neuropathies.
i have been through that glutathione thread and i may order the panel test if my re-testing of testosterone yesterday comes back low (i’ll have the results tomorrow).
btw, this neurologist believed me when i mentioned propecia. he said he had quite a few patients with headaches because of it.
thank for the detailed information on the hormones Costa.
I’ll keep u posted
Please do so. If you need any further help dont mind asking. I hope you get well soon man.
still haven’t tried medication.
Testosterone : 594ng/ml (800 max range)
Cholesterol: 195mg/dL (>190 is moderate risk)
Eritrocits: 4.61 (4.5-5.9)
Haemoglobin: 13.6 g/dL (13.0-17.5)
Hematrocit: 40.5% (42-52)
VGM: 88 fL (80-96)
HGM: 29.6 pg (28 - 33)
CMHG: 33.7 g/dL (33 - 36)
RDW: 12.8% (<14.9)
Leucocits: 5 (4.4-11.3)
Neutrophils: 51 % 3 (50-70)
Eosinophils: 9%0 (2-4)
Basophils: 0 (<1)
Linphocits: 36%2 (25-40)
Monocits: 4 (2-8)
Platelets: 193 (150-400)
Iron: 126ug/dL (33-193)
Glicose: 80mg/dL (60-110)
Creatinin_ 0.9mg/dL (0.7-1.2)
Transaminase Glutamic Piruvic: 24 (<41)
Urine:
pH: 6.0
Density: 1.025 (1.010-1.025)
So:
- testosterone got back normal: 594 ng/ml (max range is 800) so no prob there. I will start pushing harder to try to up it through HIIT.
- Cholesterol had previously been tested 3 times: 208, 210 and 218mg/dL. Now came back at 195
) For the past 5 weeks I tried my best to lower it. That meant: no sodas, no cookies, no cakes, basically NO SUGAR; 2 table spoons of hemp seed in the morning (5 weeks); 2 table spoons of flax seed per day (last 3 weeks); handful pumpkin seeds per day (first 2 weeks). Seems to be working! - Now…my red blood cell count is not so high. this may indicate anemia ? I have spasms at night which resemble PLMD which is a pathology somewhat linked and similar to RLS, which can be caused by low iron, which is a type of anemia. But my iron is within range… This decreased red blood cell count can explain why i feel tired! maybe i should supplement with b6 b9 and b12? i’m going to add hops for this.
- Eosinophils is 9 and limit is 4…what does this mean? I read it could mean parasite infection or allergy. This was always 2 in previous exams.
Am i reading in too deep?
Thanks!
Nothing really wrong with your results. Its a good sign that your testo have not lowered. Give a try to metafolin 1000mcg a day(split in two morning evening), p-5-p 60 mg a day(with metafolin) and sublingual methylcobalamin 1mg a day (after 3 weeks go eod). You should start with metafolin only and after 5 days add the p-5-p. if you feel somewhat bad with p-5-p then leave it aside. If everything goes well add the methylcobalamin, under upper lid not sublingual.
Your spasms will go away and your blood results will be better cholesterol and hemoglobin included.
I also suggest you start alpha lipoic acid (600 mg a day with empty stomach), as it is a very powerful anti-oxidant.
Start with those, they shouldnt be more than 80 euros for a month, and please report back. I think that you will be alright. Bye
Thanks for the suggestion, seems very good!
My prob with supplements is which brand to buy since they aren’t regulated.
Which brand would you recommend for these supplements? Maybe I can just buy them at the pharmacy?
Would a multivitamin be better instead?
As I seem to have positively reacted to hemp and flax seeds, as I could see by the lowered Cholesterol (from 218 to 195), I think I will first try something natural to help with b6, b9 and b12. I would feel more comfortable doing that. Do you know any good natural sources for it? I have beer yeast at home and it says 15g has 300% of the Daily Recomendations of B6,B9 and B12. Would this suffice?
Thanks!
Also, do you think 600 ng/mL is a good value for 30 years old?
because I have no wet dreams anymore, absolutely no spontaneous erections and morning wood has been going down…libido is not amazing either…is this normal at 30?
definately not normal for a 30 year old,i crashed at 32 years old and before the crash i was having some of the best sex of my life and had a great sex drive,id had a normal healthy sex drive since the age of about 11,with no sexual problems atall until i started messing around with finasteride,i know men in their 50’s and 60’s who still lust after women,so anyone who tells you “oh its just coz ur getting older” is talking shite,i went from having a normal sex drive to a sexual zombie in the space of a few weeks and have been like that for the last 6 years,no morning woods,no nocturnals,no spontanious hardons,never a flicker of life between my legs,i watch porn and the womens bodies look amazing,i know i should be feeling exitement but i feel nothing,for me fucking women was the greatest thing in life,if i had the choice of a 100 million pound lotto win or my sex drive back id take my sex drive anyday,id rather be penniless with a raging hardon than the richest man on the planet with pfs,god i hope theres an end to this pfs shite sometime soon,sorry for going on one,just venting a bit…
Robbo
I hear you buddy
I’m exactly the fucking same as you. Seriously mate, we are identical in terms of our sexual state!
I also had a huge sex drive prior to fin and perfect sexual functioning, now my penis does not work, no nocturnal or morning wood and a very thinned penis
Your test levels do not count when you are in a oxidative stress environment. You should understand that nothing works at the same way as before when you are in such a state.
No common vitamins will not work. You dont need folic acid but folate (metafolin bu solgar is a good one), not regular b6 but p-5-p (try country life brand) and not regular b12 but methylcobalamin (solgar). Do exactly what i said in my previous post if you want to see results.
Do not care about other things like cholesterol etc at this point, it all connects and it will be lowered when you start methylate correctly.
@robbo
@tigershull
Guys i have observed that you are all the time in this forum and checking every post. To my understanding this indicates that you are in a bad position right now. I was doing the same when i was feeling bad. Please give a try to methylation protocol i am sure it will do you only good. Keep it up!
sounds good, i may give this a try even before trying the new medication i just bought. i just checked in amaz*n UK and it’s not so expensive.
so a methilation protocol can be just b6,b9 and b12? or your recommendation is somewhat adjusted to those results i posted?
did you give this a try Costa? Did it help you? how long should i wait until i see results?
in fact my wet dreams didn’t disappear after finasteride but after taking mirtazapin 15mg+clonazepam 0,5mg, once a day, for insomnia.
my libido also dropped after that.
in any case this also coincided with me moving from portugal to another country which left me in more anxious state, new job, prob more responsability than i could handle and less SUN so less vitamin D
on the first week of finasteride though, i noticed problem with erection and watery semen. this i’m sure. but they lasted only a couple days and went away. i think i experienced as well lowered libido during that week…
Man of course i tried all the things i am suggesting to you and i got great results. Otherwise i would not state with such certainty that you will be ok. You seem to fall under the same category as me where your testosterone values remained unchanged.
Also, the less time you spend in a oxidative stress environment, the easiest to turn it around with treatment. I am afraid guys who suffer for years must be more patient to see results. I think you are new on this, as i am and results will come quicker.
Moreover, it is common in a state like this that some medication make you worse. Whatever ubalances things in your brain makes oxidative stress kick in harder. I experienced that with stillnox. While i was somewhat recovered after two pills of stillnox i crashed again and developped new symptoms. I cut all medication after my treatment and do not need them anymore.
Please do not ask me all the time if you should do it or not, the choice is yours and you know if you can afford it or not. I did it and now i am in a very good state, close to full recovery. I did not even think about the cost.
From my first reply to your thread i said to look at the glutathione thread by droit. All the info is there. I cannot write again the same things as it has already been written.
I understand that you moved from portugal to the uk right? Are things down there still bad economically? I have visited lisboa once and it was beautiful. Never expected that it was going to be that bad after some years.
I hope you the best man!
no prob but i wasn’t asking you if i should do it, that’s something i ask myself. i just wanted to know how much sucess you had. i’ll read that thread better, and your posts, but thanks for helping me!
i moved to belgium actually! for me it’s all the same really, uk, be, elsewhere, as the place i’d like to be is back home… if not possible in the south then in lisboa
it’s a beautiful place , i’m glad you liked it!
no one expected it to happen really…but i’m positive, i think we’re getting better , i think this year there will be a turnaround in the markets and maybe in few years we’ll be able to see change. and then maybe i can go back home
just got active b12, folate and p5p.
i also got d3 vitamin…
i will start with b12 folate and p5p only as soon as i get them. in the long run i may add d3 as i live in a not very sunny place and im from a sunny place originally
will let you know. i hope this will not be another € spent on supplements withouth any return. i read the theory and it makes sense to me.
i would like to run a genetic test too, because of MTHFR, because in my family my uncle had anxiety/depression/insomnia issues, my grandma has also nervous system issues, my mom had a couple epileptic crises, like me, and has anxiety/depression…(low grade depressions, we’re fully functional).
my mom’s epilepsy crisis showed up after a vaccination and mine showed up after a medication.
my muscle spasms also showed up after a medication.
could be i have chemical sensitivity…