BEFORE & AFTER story of Clomid Treatment for PFS

Member Stories
#101

All good questions/suggestions, wish I had more answers.

gmmoura: Yeah my Endo is from South Africa. If you can get a flight out here for consult and physical, he could liase via email after that theoretically

tenyearuser: I could speak to him about putting his thoughts together officially. It’s weird, he and whoever his contemporaries are don’t view the PFS claims with sceptism whatsoever. Quite the opposite. They know it can cause serious damage.

dgreene: I have no idea, will put that theory to him. He did say that he didn’t think Fin had the capacity to affect the receptor site per se, but that it could expose a genetic mutation in certain individuals creating that effect. That was my understanding anyway.

bob4247: Not sure what your panels are or if you’ve tried any protocols like this?

Finatruth: Do you believe fin affects progesterone at the receptor site? Give me the broad strokes and I’ll run it past him as a theory

#102

Legendary,
I would go to South Africa in a blink if he had the answers to our problem. I don’t know, lets see. I’ve always wanted to go to South Africa anyway. Maybe next year.

Another question: would he be interested in having an account here just like Dr. Irwig? This would be really great.

#103

So you were secondary hypo not because your pituitary was messed up but because your E was so high?

#104

gmmoura: I’ll ask him…

Cap: Thats why I’m grateful I went through this process and had a great Endo. Symptoms are secondary hypo but thats not actually the case i.e. problem isn’t the pituitary not stimulating testicles to produce T, problem is over active aromatase i.e. high E and high sensitivity to E. My body can produce shitloads of T without stimulation, its the E thats been shutting it off.

I’m going on a mission to become a supermodel, as per docs orders…gain muscle, strip fat and then lower Let dose as much as possible

#105

I see. Maybe I’ll get lucky and have the same thing going on.

#106

Legendary- below is outlined what I feel is happening.

ok, please pass this on to him. My theory is based on prior finasteride tests in which they purposefully use Finasteride to destroy progesterone in cells, to lower allopregenalone concentrations in the brain. Below are just a few of the studies using finasteride.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22835430
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9918575
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23280249/

I believe this is entirely neurological. Finasteride has caused an imbalance at the progesterone receptor in favor of estrogen in the brain. I have all the symptoms of Estrogen dominance (aka Low progesterone, aka un-opposed estrogen) including the most obscure such as GERD, bloating, thin skin, red irritated cuticles, and even Estachian Tube Dysfunction where I get ringing and muffled hearing which cycles every 3-4 weeks (yes like a fucking pregnant woman) Also, while I was on finasteride (took it for 9 years with no noticeable symptoms until I stopped) I was on a boat for 2 weeks. When I got off the cruise ship I felt the rocking sensation of the boat for months and months, it was horrible. It is called Mal De Debarquement and usually 95% of the times affects women in their late 40’s. There is no known cure for it and at one time they believed that it was an inner ear disorder or balance disorder, however current science based on the fact that mostly middle aged women are affected by this are looking at neural/hormonal problems, and research is under way based on a theory that there is an imbalance of progesterone to estrogen in the brain. So why are we affected? I believe that potentially EVERYONE is affected by this, even as minimally as men loosing nightime and AM erections and or erotic dreams while on it, until stopping. Those more severly affected may have lower concentrations of progesterone in the brain. Progesterone is supposedly a very calming/anti-anxiety hormone and it is very clear most men on this site, including myself, were all very anxious individuals before finasteride. Potentially this imabalnce can occur after the first pill or after years when suddenly the balance either way is affected. Here are two very very interesting things about our condition. Many people have reported, myself included that alcohol often times gives us a spike in libido and sexual function. It is known that alcohol can increase progesterone and allo in the brain. In fact, this month has been my best month dealing with this syndrome and I have been drinking a lot of vodka. Finally, many people reported that they got spontaneous and strong erections while flying. Well research shows that plasma levels of progesterone rise during high altitudes, and how high is the altitude when you are in a plane! I am very close to trying low dose prozac at 2mg to try to increase brain levels of allopregenalone. I think the receptors are not working properly which is leading to downregulated dopamine receptors, lower testosterone, poor gene expression, lower libido, fatigue, thyroid and adrenal problems etc

#107

By the way, you know that thread about Mylenation that is gaining a lot of steam lately, enuoght to peak Awor’s interest…Take a look below.

The metabolic pathway of progesterone (inhibited by finasteride…) is vital for myelination and other functions in the CNS. In fact there are dozens of studies about the effects of progesterone metabolism and allopregnanolone on myelination.

The motor neurons of the spinal chord expresses mainly 5AR type 2 (inhibited by finasteride)? So there will be a negative effect of myelination potentially.

#108

Legendary. My panels show low test in the bottom third, but I dont have any other signs like muscle loss or weight gain. The main thing is my sexual functioning and desire was obliterated and hair on my head has regrown since crash at the end of last sept

#109

The reason why you get higher libido and sexual function after alcohol is because it raises testosterone. I only have a german source for that. They gave alcohol to rats and measured then testo concentration in the brain, it was 3-4x higher than before.

#110

Hey guys,

Quick update:

After meeting with my Endo (see previous post), I decided to try half my Letrozole dosage to 1.25mg per day. Did this for 4 weeks, waited 48 hours then re-tested. Results were as follows:

E: 98 pmol/L (from undetectable)
Total T: 21.9 nmol/L
SHBG: 20 nmol/L
Free T: 606 pmol/L

Overall feel good. Some generalised anxiety and occasional shrinkage, but it fluctuates. Have been following Timothy Ferriss’s Slow Carb diet during this period and it really works. Have been stripping body fat and gaining muscle. In really good shape.

Doc advised that I keep at it, but add x2 days per week of 2.5mg Letrozole to get my E under 90 and take things from there. Started my Vitamin D supps today, feels good.

Will check in again soon

#111

Very interesting theory. Have you tried Progesterone cream and/or Pregenalone supplementation?

#112

Has anyone tried Fulvestrant? Its an estrogen receptor down regulator. If legendary’s doctor thinks we have estrogen hypersensitivity, maybe this could help.

Legendary, would you please ask your doctor about Fulvestrant? Also, any way he would be able to speak with Dr. Bhasin to talk to him about your case?

#113

That would be great. I am also a patient of Dr. Bhasin, and my background is almost identical to Legendary’s. I think Bhasin is at the top of his field in Endocrinology, but he is very conservative / by-the-book with his treatment. I had to practically fight him off of trying TRT, and this low-dose Clomid with no AI regimen he has me on isn’t helping me that much.

#114

Hey guys,

If you give me Dr Bhasin’s details I’ll forward them on to my Endo. Maybe send me a mail with your and your doc’s deets and what you’d like my guy to highlight in the mail?

re: Fulvestrant: Isn’t it incredibly expensive? And not any more effective than other AI’s? I’ve been getting good results from Letrozole. I remember my doc initially mentioned Aromasin, but it was even more expensive. And I’m not crazy about the fact that its effects are irreversible.

Renegade: Welcome to the site…have you uploaded your bloodwork? Our stories do sound very similar. For me, Clomid ultimately served as a diagnostic tool i.e. using it and Letrozole helped demonstrate that even though my symptoms and bloodwork indicated Secondary Hypo, that wasn’t actually what was going on. I don’t need to stimulate my pituitary to make T, just need to keep the E in check and my T goes through the roof. Haven’t seen your bloodwork, but from your profile I strongly suspect that Letrozole will be more useful for you than Clomid. i.e. your brain and balls are more than capable of making heaps of T without stimulation, it’s the E that is spoilng the party by shutting off the pituitary. It’s just a theory and I’m not an Endo obviously, but it’s true for me and seems likely for your case, given what you’ve written on your profile…

#115

PS-You guys are welcome to send your Doctor the transcript I wrote up on Pg 5 from my last meeting with my Endo, it covers everything he told me. Might turn on the lightbulb for your guy…

#116

Hi Legendary,

Thanks for the input. I uploaded my blood work on the My Story section - just waiting for it to post.

Re Letro…I actually took some back in Spring 2012 (to try to get rid of gyno). I ordered it from the same online pharm. that I used to get my Dut., so I figured it would a legit source since their Fin/Dut must have real - got gyno. Anyway, it was Fempro, 2.5 mg for 12 weeks. But it didn’t do squat (positive or negative). I guess it could have been fake since I didn’t get any noticeable sides. But my joints were already felt like shit and I had no libido, so who knows.

My theory is that you don’t need any HPTA stimulation anymore because your (powerful) restart protocol was successful. Your BW shows you had low LH before Clomid. You pretty much only have elevated E2 now, which is easily remedied by taking an AI. Kudos to you for finding such an awesome doctor!

#117

Hi Legendary,

Has there been any improvement in your junk has it gone back to its pre PFS state ?

#118

Our problem is not so much the production of testosterone. I too was able to get my Testosterone to 1000 via clomid, but it did not improve my symptoms. Our problem is much more complicated than that.

#119

Renegade, since your a patient of doctor Bhasin, would you mind printing out legendary’s post and showing it to Bhasin? Also, he currently has you on clomid? I thought he knows our problem cannot be fixed via simple clomid…

#120

This is pretty scary. I hope I’m not making multiple trips to Boston a year just to have him put me on TRT.