Androgen resistence? is it the cause?

General Discussion
#1

There is many theories as to this problem we all have. Unfortunately, I do not feel that the true cause will be discovered until our conditions are taken seriously by the medical community, as a whole, and some serious testing in a lab is done to try and discover the cause. I think we can all theorize until we are blue in the face, but nobody is really sure about our problem…not even doctors. I do feel that propecia has affected us all in different ways. What may help my symptoms may not help somebody else. I do find it odd though that yohimbine seems to help a lot on here. I also find it odd that some gain muscle while taking test. Could it be androgen resistence if these things seem too have an effect? On the other hand, why is it that after taking this drug and stopping, our hair has stopped falling out like before? Does this point too androgen resistence? Or is there more to our hair falling out then just dht?

Also, we did alot of us start to have problems with our prostates when we started going down hill? We also started to have problems with sleep. Can all these problems be connected to just androgen resistence as the cause? The answer to this problem is a true mystery…but I ponder as to how all these things connect somehow. Just all very strange. I 've also read that our muscles have receptors for test, so maybe that is why it’s possible to still gain muscle, but the receptors we need for libido, and ect…have been affected. Who really knows.

#2

yes man I am one of those who believe ARI (androgen receptor insensitivity) theory. testosterone is anabolic while DHT is adrogenic. our prostate has androgen (DHT) receptors while other muscles have mixed. My theory is our prostate have gone to insensitivity to DHT while other parts to varying degrees depending upon number of DHT receptors there. So TRT is not giving any effects to most of us.Further there are some fin users who have higher than normal TT level yet a limping dick. Remember dick itself is nothing it is prostate which drives it. A weak prostate will result in weak erection. while trt can give boost in muscles mass but can not cause any good results in prostate area if it is dead or non-respondent. Maybe in some users fin /saw palmetto affected prostate only ( results in high TT level) and in some users it affected both prostate and testicles (low TT level).

This is all hypothesis unless proved so don’t take it seriously.

sps

#3

Do you feel that trying clomid to boost t levels a bit, can do more good or harm?

#4

TS, i don’t believe in this theory really. Not as a key factor anyway. Perhaps partial resistance is in play for a select few.

Why do i think this? Because firstly in almost all cases people’s hormones ARE out of whack. Look at fixing these, first. Hormones are extremely complicated. Thyroid, cortisol production, Testosterone/Estrogen/Progesterone/DHT balances etc etc. Not to mention alot of people have low adiol-G levels which seems to imply lower reductabase activity. Finasteride is a bad drug it messes with alot of function and potentially even brain function by way of its hormonal connections.

Secondly, time-lines vary too much from person to person. If a “Crash” = someone completely losing their androgen sensitivty overnight then i’d like to know how this is realistic as opposed to the persons who’s seems to be affected over time.

It’s not that its a ridculous theory but for most sufferers the case SEEMS to be hormonal atleast for the most part.

#5

Colin297

steroidn users also suffer the same sides as we do but their problem is easily fixed by taking TRT here whalen72 is good example. In our case show me a single case where TRT fixed it. it just fixes partially.

#6

I agree but there is good reason for that, namely that finasteride is completely different than steroids and impacts directly and indirectly on so many things. Just because a much more complicated and strategic protocol is required (and one that is tailored to the person) doesn’t necessarily imply androgen resistence. That’s quite a jump in logic imo.

#7

did you ever try TRT? In my opinion we should try DHT cream directly like Andractim. Go on any FTM forum and see how DHT is helping these girls to become boy. they are using it direclty on their selected parts.

#8

No i haven’t. I actually have top level Testosterone readings. I’m getting my DHT reading within the next few days, though.

Yeah, i’ve no doubt about the power of DHT cream. I am aware many people on here are somewhat numb to it, though. I guess this is one of their main arguments in support of androgen resistence. I think DHT metabolism is more to do with it, though.

#9

I agree with you DHT is not being metabolized.

#10

I wish it was unequivocally androgen resistance (at the very least we would have an answer), but I don’t see how that could be the case when people argue that they have really good days interspersed with the bad days. I know some literature pinpoints that the down regulation of certain enzymes and or hormones has occurred; but I am sure that that happens to 99% of those who ingest the drug; and, as we know most people revert back to feeling relatively normal; despite the seemingly irreversible changes that have occurred. I had high E1 and E2; and, having recently rectified the disequilibrium I feel worse. It almost seems the case, that any hormonal anomaly; and I don’t care how fussy you want to be in pinpointing such an anomaly, is not the pertinent point or root cause at all. We know some have essentially perfect hormonal profiles and still feel lousy. Please, don’t take me to be arguing that all hormonal insufficiencies should be ignored or not treated; but, adequate treatment does not seem to be delivering the night to day resolution that everyone is hoping for. Hormonal anomalies seem to be a symptom of something more deep rooted.

#11

could you shed more light. how did you test for E1,E2?
what was reading?
what treatment and how long did you take?
how do you fee pre and post?

thanks

sps

#12

I had a saliva test, and my E1 came back at 274 (range 9.6-20); and E2 at 29: apparently that should be below 5. My testosterone was 228 (range 100-720). My new figures are as follows:

Testosterone: 570 range (100-720)pmol/L
E2: 14 (no range specified)pmol/L
E1: 39 (9.6-20)pmol/L

The improvement was brought about by supplementation for 12 days (I believe 200mg; not sure, because I threw the remainder out). Despite the improvement in figures I feel worse now having stopped. I suspect my hormonal profile will soon seem excellent (due to future supplementation), but I will still be far from back to my old self. Serum Testosterone results have always been quite high.

#13

E1 is weak estrogen, it’s e2 that’s the main player. Those e2 readings were fine now they’re low.

You were badly advised imo. You didn’t really correct anything you drove your E2 too low. Do you feel weakened joints?

#14

As you noted Colin, E1 may be a weak estrogen; but, does that make my sky high reading inconsquential in the current setting? Now, as far as the E2 goes, I was informed by my doctor that it should be below 5; and, the labs notes accompanying by results say that both E1 and E2 are high for a male. My joints were bad when I first got sick years ago: they are fine now.