Alterations of gut microbiota composition in post-finasteride patients: a pilot study. Melcangi, 2020

Science PFS Research
#81

Well butyrate is produced by bacteria, bacterial production is probably a rate limiter that prevents this scfa from becoming toxic.
Taking it separately as a supplement really doesnt make the most sense to me but idk, ive never tried it.
Id keep in mind there are other ways to go about increasing butyrate such as cross feeding from other bacteria.

Example, and theres quite a few like this.

Two Routes of Metabolic Cross-Feeding between Bifidobacterium adolescentis and Butyrate-Producing Anaerobes from the Human Gut

Lactate- and acetate-based cross-feeding interactions ā€¦

europepmc.org ā€ŗ abstract ā€ŗ med
](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/27810444)

Cross - feeding interactions were studied between selected strains of lactobacilli and/or bifidobacteria and butyrate -producing colon bacteria that consume lactate ā€¦

Cross-feeding between Bifidobacteria and butyrate-producing ā€¦

www.researchgate.net ā€ŗ publication ā€ŗ 50935904_Cross-feā€¦
](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/50935904_Cross-feeding_between_Bifidobacteria_and_butyrate-producing_colon_bacteria_explains_bifdobacterial_competitiveness_butyrate_production_and_gas_production)

The conversion of lactate and acetate to butyrate ( crossfeeding of lactate) is a recognized nutritional interaction between lactate-and acetate -forming bacteria ā€¦

Probiotic Bifidobacterium longum alters gut luminal ā€¦ - Nature

www.nature.com ā€ŗ scientific reports ā€ŗ articles
](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep13548)

Aug 28, 2015 ā€” ā€¦ a butyrate producer, was significantly higher in the BB536 -HGM group ā€¦ with B. longum BB536 increased the fecal butyrate concentration.

^not to highlight bifido, it was just the quickest example. Not to say its whats right.

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#82

Thanks for your post.
I find butyrate is very good for cognitive issues.
But I feel the physical effects are a bit alarming and overwhelming and they come and go. Not sure if it is a sort of herx reaction or the activation of sleepy genes that make me look and feel sort of ill when its metabolizing. The after effects that linger are huge though.

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#83

adding to this, cold induction. The example here is an ice bath. Also proper immune regulation consists of a balance between pro and anti-inflammatory responses.

ā€œThe concept of ice bath immersion after physical exercise is that the cold temperature will lead to a rapid-onset anti-inflammatory effect, as well as cause an intravascular fluid shift to reduce muscle swelling,ā€ Dr. Nina Shapiro, professor at UCLA and author of HYPE: A Doctorā€™s Guide to Medical Myths, Exaggerated Claims and Bad Advice: How to Tell Whatā€™s Real and Whatā€™s Not , explains to Yahoo Life. ā€œIn addition, the goal is to enhance cardiac output and blood flow due to this fluid shift. It also acts to increase the release of adrenaline, which may, in turn, reduce physiologic fatigue.ā€

In other words, the initial jolt of the cold can essentially wake someone out of an exhausted state ā€” a shock some practitioners may find enjoyable or therapeutic, though Shapiro notes that any mental health benefits are subjective. The cold temperature also slows the body down and lowers heart rate.

Dr. Taz Bhatia, an integrative medicine physician and wellness expert, agrees that ice baths can help athletes and fitness enthusiasts soothe sore muscles and inflammation post-workout. She adds that they can ā€œplay a role in training the vagus nerve, which helps to promote parasympathetic stimulation or the relaxation response, which is where healing occurs.ā€

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#84

Thereā€™s only one person who can help us address this microbial shift mentioned in the study with decades worth of experience and uses data banks to analyze microbiome and provide a specific protocol to restore balance.

Iā€™ll post the recommendations when ever they are available. Stay hopeful!

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#85

Im going to show this list here of what can be detected through Viome, its pretty impressive.
You see how easy and relatively cheap it could be to run our own pilot study. Fecal counts or whats active in the stool might not tell the whole story, but it might be better then nothing and worth checking. Viome has the most advanced technology to look at this atm, far beyond the Melcangi study.

My thought is whats going on in the small intestine might be most important, and what could be rapidly modifiable through diet or drugs like Finasteride. This to me makes much more sense as to how one pill could do so much ongoing damage.


Our method detects transcripts (RNAs) produced by the microbial community. We are able to see down to one in a million transcripts. We cannot detect microbes that contribute fewer than one in a 1,000,000 specific transcripts. In addition, Viome only sees active microbes in your gut. If other microbes are there, but are not active, we will not pick up their RNA. You can find your organisms in My Results > My Microbe Activity. Your organisms are in alphabetical order. You can see what category they are in with the letter next to it. P for probiotic, B for bacteria, A for Archaea, E for Eukaryote (Yeast including Candida, Fungus, Parasites if alive and active will be listed here) and V for Virus. However, since Viome is not diagnostic we only provide the scientific name and are unable to label them as pathogenic or parasitic.

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#86

I know who you talkļ¼Œand I wish the day coming

#87

Hi there! Curious about the same. My husband had a setback recently after a course of antibiotics. Can you share what you did specifically to modulate your gut? Ty!

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#88

Antibiotics have been linked to anxiety and depression they wipe out the good bacteria that produces serotonin in the gut. Try eating foods rich in Tryptophan

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#89

Supplementing with probiotics has been helping me lately. Slow and steady. Avoid alcohol until the setback gas cleared.

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#90

As someone who will need to be on antibiotics eventually for a procedure, could you explain how he was set back and if heā€™s recovered from that?

I was put on amoxicillin recently and I had to stop after one pill as it worsened my muscular dystrophy symptoms and gave me anxiety.

#91

Gut is also messed up in a lot of neurological conditions like MS, Huntingtonā€™s, Autism etc.

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#92

Given the known alterations of gut microbiota in us PFS sufferers, and the history of some who have had fecal matter transplants, has anyone performed a test before and after the transplant to see if there were any positive, lasting changes to the microbiota composition?

If any of us are in contact with Melcangi, would he accept having one of us tested (Iā€™ll gladly volunteer), and have a fecal matter transplant, wait a few weeks, and get tested again to see if there are any positive effects? I now have good insurance and will pay for for any reasonable costs.

Fecal Matter Transplants are already performed for a variety of valid reasons and are no longer considered experimental. I donā€™t see much downside in trying this, especially in a supervised medical setting. (While Iā€™d like to say things canā€™t get worse, I wonā€™t).

There seems to be other promising Fecal Microbiota Transplantation with other neuropsychiatric disorders, as covered in this article:

I really donā€™t want to continue taking seemingly useless supplements and injecting myself with hormones for little to no positive effects as my life continues to slide away, and wonā€™t pass up an opportunity to do something, anything, in the hopes of overcoming this condition.

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#93

You donā€™t need a doctor to test your microbiome, although if youā€™re going to do a FMT it might be best so consult a doc (although itā€™s possible to do yourself, at least in Europe).

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#94

I got my biome tested and posted the results here a few years ago. Iā€™d like to have the same exact test Melcangi had performed, and then have a transplant to see if there are any lasting, positive effects. I would like what I do to be considered legitimate, so if it works, it can be verified and repeatable. If it doesnā€™t, it may still offer some value through process of elimination.

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#95

Yeah that sounds like a good idea.

The method he used is ā€œ16S rRNA gene sequencingā€.

I donā€™t know much about American microbiome labs but you could always look around if anyone offers it.

Edit: ā€œViomeā€ seems to be using a similar RNA sequencing method at least.

You donā€™t happen to know where I can find your old test?

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#96

My old test is here. I donā€™t think itā€™s comparable to the one in the study.

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