During the last few months on propecia and since I have stopped taking it (10 months) I have not had the desire to drink alcohol. I have drank a few times but it hasn’t been a pleasurable experience. Has anyone else felt like this? I also get this tingling sensation in my scrotum when I drink alcohol.
I cant tolerate alcohol, sugar or caffeine much anymore, my 3 vices, oh well
Do you mean your symptoms get worse or your tolerance is low - ie: you get drunk fast?
I haven’t noticed any correlation with symptoms and increased alcohol intake.
It’s because your body cannot handle stress. It’s been burned out. After 1 year of quitting, I finally can drink again.
I mean my symptoms get worse. The next day I’ll wake up and I’ll feel like shit (much worse than a hangover - more of a depressive state). My testicles shrink and my libido decreases. I know that alcohol decreases testosterone. I also get a tingling sensation in my testicles.
I also don’t have as good of a time when drinking. It seems like my body has a difficult time metabolizing alcohol.
This is a post I put together for people who wanted to know if alcohol could cause gynecomastia. It is relevant in this context because many people heer are suffering from androgen deficient related issues from finasteride use and as as previously been mentioned alcohol consumption does lower androgen status. People can ignore the gynecomastia refereences if they wish and just look at the points made in relation to the relevant hormones affected;
Throughout this mail I will be quoting extracts verbatim from Dr Malcolm Carruthers MD, FRCPATH, MRCGP world leading andrologist and author of The Testosterone Revolution and Dr Eugene Shippen, world leading andrologist and his book The Testosterone Syndrome. I will write “open quote Carruthers or open quote Shippen” at the start of extracts to differentiate source and “closed quote” at the end of such so my comments which have no quotes are also made clear.
Start….
Alcohol can indirectly cause gynecomastia in more than one way given the manner of alcohols action on the body.
There are many studies that have proven beyond any doubt whatsoever that alcohol reduces testosterone. If the intake is significant so too is the extent to which testosterone is lowered. Alcohol also increases the amount that testosterone is aromatised into estradiol (the most potent estrogen), with significant intake estradiol increases significantly. SHBG may also increase something that binds testosterone in the blood and reduces its bioavailability and other adverse action may also be involved One such study that partly evidenced this is spoken about below;
Open quote Carruthers
It is surprising how strong a poison to the testis alcohol is. It may directly or through its immediate breakdown product, acetaldehyde or by increasing SHBG. Either way, even in moderate drinkers, blood testosterone levels fall as alcohol increases. Drinking enough to cause a hangover has been found to lower testosterone levels 12-20 hours later – in one study to 20 percent of their levels before drinking.
Closed quote
How much of a problem this represents depends on a diverse number of factors such as liver function, the initial androgen to estrogen ratio, the duration of consumption in terms of binging, whether or not there is a past history of heavy drinking, etc etc
Irrespective of how much testosterone, estradiol and the androgen to estrogen ratio is affected, if the alcohol consumed is not moderate to heavy and long term in nature, and a diseased state does not exist, such changes are usually nothing more than a blip to the endocrine system and not likely to cause any gynecomastia development.
That said; when people do overindulge, they often do get an indicator of the adverse blip effect on the endocrine system, a symptom that occurs in untreated or poorly treated hypogonadal patients, namely erectile dysfunction. Erectile dysfunction occurs in many when they drink too much; hence the age old term brewers droop. It is an indicator of a temporary hormonal imbalance.
Whether you do or do not suffer from the above (men with better androgen to estrogen ratios are generally spared this, and it is certainly more common as men age), the above means little in the short term as hormones are working 24 hours a day 7 days a week, such a temporal change is not an issue. However it maybe regarded as a warning shot, of things to come, if you adopt a lifestyle that involves long term moderate to heavy drinking.
There is significant evidence and studies across the world that has proven that long term moderate to heavy drinking causes an increase in the incidence of hypogonadism, which an associated condition to gynecomastia. Bare in mind, I may be talking about testosterone, estrogen and hormones a lot but with 1 in every 10 gynecomastia sufferers having hypogonadism and gynecomastia at its root being caused by hormonal factors what is being spoken about could not be more relevant.
Open quote Carruthers
Thirty percent of my first 1,000 hypogonadal patients reported drinking more than the 21 units of alcohol a week and many drank two, three or four times that amount.
Closed quote
Alcohol when consumed beyond recommended limits in the long term; poisons the testicles and inhibits their correct function resulting in reduced testosterone levels.
Open quote Carruthers
A sixteenth-centuary Italian physician called Cornaro wrote, The excesses of our youth are like drafts upon our old age, payable with interest about twenty years after date. This is certainly true in relation to alcohol. As well as those hypogonadal patients who were drinking too much, about another 10 percent gave a past history of excess alcohol consumption for over a year or more. Unfortunately, testicular function does not seem to improve very much even if they subsequently stop drinking for several years. This is in contrast to smoking, where most of the hazards, such as lung cancer and heart disease, decrease dramatically within five to ten years of giving up. The testis lack the power of the liver to regenerate and never fully recovers, as is shown by the infertility, impotence and loss of libido that chronic alcoholics experience, even after drying out.
Closed quote
Open quote Carruthers
The sensitivity of the testis to alcohol was clearly shown in recent studies conducted by a research group in Milan Italy. They found that compared to non drinkers, those who drank 14-21 units of alcohol per week, and over were more than four times more likely to be subfertile and those who drank 28 units and over were nearly four times more likely.
Closed quote
The above has so far only considered the impact of alcohol on the testis. However it is very well understood that the liver is greatly adversely affected by alcohol heavy consumption over long periods of time or by very heavy binge drinking over shorter periods of time. It is also well understood that those with underlying liver problems (many of which go undiagnosed) suffer adverse affects from even moderate alcohol consumption over time.
According to Glen D Braunstein Endocrinologist in his 1993 white paper Entitled Gynecomastia and concurred with by Ismail and Barth biochemists in their 2002 white paper entitled Endocrinology of Gynecomastia. 8 percent of all gynecomastia sufferers have so due to underlying liver disease or cirrhosis and one of the greatest causes of cirrhosis is alcoholism.
As Dr Carruthers explains the liver can regenerate. Function can return if drinking has not chronically reached a certain stage.
However!!
The liver is the second most complicated organ in the human body after the brain and is responsible for performing over 500 different functions and not all of these functions return post injury, disease etc.
Many men, particularly in middle age, but also younger men have been found to suffer from something Dr Eugene Shippen (world leading andrologist) refers to as metabolic hypogonadism. Something very often caused by a failure of the liver to correctly metabolize and clear/detoxify the body of the potent estrogen estradiol from the body.
Increased estradiol and an increased half life in the body results in an increase in the total steroid levels. The hypothalamus cannot distinguish the difference between testosterone and estradiol, this results in the hypothalamus being fooled into thinking the body has too much testosterone (it does not) and in turn down-regulating GnRH, this in turn tell the pituitary to down-regulate LH and this finally reduces leydig cell action and leaves the individual with a lowered testosterone level.
Moderate to heavy alcohol consumption in the long term or heavy binge drinking generally with its adverse effects on the liver, decreased ability to detoxify the body of estradiol will almost certainly increase the likelihood of developing a sluggish pituitary and secondary lowering of testosterone via at least one mechanism ( as shown above).
Also worth nothing is that Dr Malcolm Carruthers also believes that drinking may increase SHBG which may also increase metabolic problems in the long term (studies required) by reducing free testosterone. Something will already happen in the above, due to another mechanism. Estradiol has a nasty habit of blocking androgen receptor sites and reducing free testosterone, something fairly well proven.
Open quote Shippen
In many men, high estrogen levels cause an actual slowdown in testosterone production. The mechanism of action is that the female hormone occupies some of the hypothalamic receptors for testosterone in the brain. The hypothalamus interprets this as if it were testosterone those receptor sites. The hypothalamus is tricked into acting as if testosterone levels in the body are high, and so it fails to send out the hormones that would tell the pituitary gland to stimulate testosterone production in the gonads. This is a form of secondary hypogonadism that we discussed in the last chapter, dependent now not upon a diseased state or pharmaceutical side effects or merely aging but purely upon an inappropriately high level of estrogen.
Closed quote
In his reason for increased estrogen production;
Open quote Shippen
Liver function. Alterations in liver function involve the important P450 system – a primary processing system that eliminates chemicals, hormones, drugs, and metabolic waste products from the body. Among its many duties is the task of excreting excess estrogen from the body. We will find that a wide variety of factors (including alcohol intake) can impair this system and tend to do so with age. In many individuals, this results in a gradual buildup of estrogen. In fact, the P450 system may be the most important factor in metabolic hypogonadism.
Closed quote
A life style thern of moderate to heavy drinking in the long term or binge drinking generally can;
A) Cause liver disease ( if consumption is significant enough or underlying disease exists) and that as shown by Ismail and Barth to cause gynecomastia.
B) Poison the testis and cause primary hypogonadism as indicated by Dr Malcolm Carruthers.
C) Cause metabolic hypogonadism as indicated by Dr Eugene Shippen.
And hypogonadism as previously explained readily causes gynecomastia being responsible for 10% of all gynecomastia cases/sufferers.
So what is the point of the big long waffling post above?
Well if finasteride use has caused androgen related problems, lowered free testosterone or reduced the androgen to estrogen ratio and then you consume alcohol, and alcohol reduces free testosterone and adversely affects the androgen to estrogen ratio;
Then you might well feel greater adverse effects upon consuming alcohol post finasteride use due to a poorer endocrine balance.
Make sense?
Yes, that does make sense Hypo. Thank you.
And important follow up to the original post in 2006 with a study published in August of 2013.
Published by: Kazuhiro Tokuda1, Yukitoshi Izumi1,2,*, Charles F Zorumski1,2,3
Article first published online: 13 AUG 2013…
Locally-generated acetaldehyde contributes to the effects of ethanol on neurosteroids and long-term potentiation in the hippocampus.
Link to original publication: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ncn3.39/abstract
Please be sure to click each of the THREE tabs, Abstract - Article - References to obtain all the information.
Needless to say, I was astounded to find this study. The search criteria I used was a result of the numerous comments I’ve heard from Wife and Kids about “Why I’m drinking so much Vodka and Redbull in the evenings”. So, I did a Google search using “How does alcohol affect Neurosteroids?”.
Once the article loads, please be sure to search for the word ‘finasteride’. CTRL+F will do it. Finasteride is mentioned 10 times.
I’m not a scientist or doctor. Only a desperate PFS sufferer whose in a living HELL and searching for answers.
Please comment or PM me. I can at least try to help best I can.
Hang tough guys! It’s a miracle I’m alive and typing still…
I was threatened by my mother being hospitalized due to alcohol, i was alcoholic, drank straight, I often played Hoony in college for drinking. After the PFS, I was “cured of alcoholism” the alcohol started to do more effect and stopped drinking.
Finasteride has definitely raised my tolerance of alcohol. I can drink 18-24 beers easily and barely be buzzed. Hasn’t done anything to make me want to drink less though unfortunately.
I agree. Before fin I was a somewhat heavy drinker. The bartender at my waterhole called my nightcap a “2 and 2” which meant 2 beers and 2 shots of whiskey. Before fin, this would make me pretty drunk and I would go home and go to sleep. After fin - this is laughable to me. I can drink two beers and a half of a fifth in a night and be less drunk than the 2 and 2 used to make me. Less of the euphoria feeling as well. So I have to be careful.