A warning about SAMe, methylcobalamin, and high-dose B vitamins

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#17

@johnniehaz: There has been some evidence over the years of a trend toward global genomic demethylation during treatment with vitamin-A and analogues of vitamin-A. This is in contrast to what was reported in the SAM-e paper (no significant effect of retinoic acid on genome-wide methylation).

FYI: That paper wasn’t peer-reviewed or published. Just a thesis paper on record. Interesting to read though.

31 years? Truly sorry to hear that. I hope you weren’t affected severely and have been managing well.

@BearOf17: I truly believe it was when the methylcobalamin was added that my new problems began.The SAM-e felt like it didn’t have much of an effect by itself (maybe a little additional energy and uplift in mood), and I have taken high doses of cyanocobalamin (B12) in the past for increased energy without trouble.

#18

is this some kind of a global dna methylation protocol?
is the combo of sam e and b vit a combo used for inducing methylation?

tnx

#19

Wait… does this mean taking Vit B12 and Vit E is bad?? even in small amount??

I don’t understand

#20

This doesn’t have anything to do with vitamin E. I took extremely high doses of B-12 (methylcobalamin) as an oral supplement, in combination with SAM-e, and developed horrible insomnia and worsening of nearly all PFS/PAS symptoms. I was also experiencing derealization and complete impotence during the worst of it. This lasted for over 3 months after I quit taking them and I am still not sleeping right or feeling right. Doing much better now though. There were also a couple guys on solvepfs who also had a terrible reaction to high-dose B12.

Small amounts of B-12, within recommended daily values, should be fine. Myself and the others were taking supplements containing up to %16,000 of USDA recommended daily values.

1 Like
#21

I incredibly worsened after Vitamin b1

#22

You can find a bunch of articles relating to B Vitamins and Methylation written by Chris Masterjohn PHD in Nutritional Sciences.

1 Like
Melcangi study and Methylation treatment?
#23

Wow, I might have fucked up with the methyl B12. I totally forgot about this thread. After reading about B12 as a way to treat delayed sleep phase disorder, I started taking 2000 mcg these past two days and today I woke up only after 2.5 hours of sleep and no longer have any sleep drive for the day.

As a bonus, I’ve also been taking a tablespoon of raw cacao nibs for the past three days, too. I didn’t know that chocolate/cocoa was anti-androgenic and I took a brand that’s very high in polyphenols. I think that also might have further compounded things to fuck me up even more. I feel so scared now.

Have you recovered from this as of now, Dubya_B?

#24

So is a super b complex okay to take? I just started taking one yesterday and I feel like my sleep is more fucked than normal but I’m not sure

#25

Please stop now before you go too far to turn back. This is how it started for me, and no, I haven’t fully recovered yet. Still having trouble getting more than 5 hours sleep most nights. It is better than the 3.5-4 I was getting though. Most of the other parameters, like total ED and horrible derealization have almost resolved.

It’s your call. I didn’t feel right for a couple days after taking a high-dose B complex that one of my ex’s was taking daily without problems. Just be very cautious messing around with this.

#26

with mehtylcobalamin, you are hyperventilating even more ( silencing even more what is already silenced)

Effect of cobalamin derivatives on in vitro enzymatic DNA methylation: methylcobalamin can act as a methyl donor.

The key is all the way around we need Demethlyliation to reactivate the gene that is silenced.
Methylprednisolone are going to do the job a the correct dosage and protocol.

There are compounds like cumming that are demethylating agents but block DHT, we need demethyliation without suppress DHT

1 Like
next a stupid guy...but i believe...
#27

Do you think NAD+ is safe? I know it has some b3

#28

Holy shit. Oh, god. Thank you for this. So does this mean one can’t go on a vegan/vegetarian diet + supplement B12 once someone has PFS or PFS-like symptoms? What about hydroxocobalamin?

I have some theracumin at home. Would it be even more potentially disastrous to take one to try to counteract the effects of the methyl b12? I’m going to stop taking any more supplements for along time except for my vitamin D3 + K2 and magnesium.

#29

B3 seem that is safe, but I recommend you to do more research

DON’T Use Niacin to Buffer Excess Methyl Groups

12 Symptoms of Overmethylation

Genetics, nutrition, and environment can all lead to both undermethylation and overmethylation. Though overmethylation is less common, it’s still a problem I see in my office fairly regularly. So I suspect that overmethylation is actually a bigger problem than we’ve yet to discover. The end product of methylation is called SAMe, when your body becomes overmethylated there’s too much SAMe floating around.

Symptoms of overmethylation include:

  1. Anxiety
  2. Depression
  3. Panic attacks
  4. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
  5. Behavior disorders
  6. Sleep disorders
  7. Restless
  8. Histamine intolerance
  9. Sensitive to environmental toxins
  10. Highly creative
  11. High energy
  12. Schizophrenia

All this explain me why anonymus is recovered when he was given 1000 mg of Methylprednisolone for 5 days. demethyliation reactivate the silenced genes that keep us with all this crappy side effects.
in my opinion it is the cure.
Methylprednisolone is a DNMT1 inhibitor.
DNMT1 inhibitors are global demethyliators.

2 Likes
Warning about *dark* chocolate/cocoa/cacao (or foods containing high amounts of 5ar inhibiting flavonols)!
#30

Wow, I am so sorry to hear that. How long did you take the B12 for before you started getting symptoms? I’m definitely going to stop now.

#31

That’s the thing, I’m not really certain because I wasn’t paying attention to my sleep patterns. It just crept up on me and one day I realized I had only slept a max of 4 hrs per night for the previous 5 days, but I think it was around 2 weeks into the B12 and I had been taking SAM-e for a month at that time. It could have been the combination that made it so intense.

There shouldn’t be any problems with taking supplemental B12 as part of a diet plan if you stay within the recommended daily allotments. A lot of these supplements provide ten-fold or more of the US-RDA.

I think the methylcobalamin I was taking was %16,000 of the US-RDA of B12.

#32

So according to your video, glycine helps to soak up excess methyl groups? Has any had success with supplementing glycine?

#33

Dr. Fitzgerald:But we know without question that hypermethylation of the promoter regions of DNA is associated with shutting down gene promotion or expression. When the promoter region is hypermethylated, then that particular gene can’t express, and that’s been shown to occur in many different disease states.

we’ve been fortifying grains for a long time now, so we have more folic acid data than others, but it absolutely increases this potential for hypermethylation. So, higher dose foliate, folic acid exposure, leads to this hypermethylation state and it shuts down. It’s literally shutting down this gene expression in these genes, our tumor suppressor genes, for one, so our ability to fight cancer is inhibited,

Dr. Fitzgerald: No, no. They’re not out there, but what’s clear in the research is that SAM-e, so production of CME, that’s the cofactor for DNA and methyl transferase enzymes, so anything that’s pushing methylation in any capacity. If you’re using those natural or bioidentical methyl donors, you’re going to be increasing CME production, you’re going to be pushing methylation reactions forward.

Guys in my personal opinion:
This is what PSF is hypermethylation in the SRD5A2 pathway.

3 Likes
#34

Are there any reliable tests to show if we under or over methylate? Thanks

2 Likes
#35

If you use search terms “methlyation blood panel”, there are a multitude of different companies offering tests for methylation status, although I’m not sure if these tests carry any validity.

2 Likes
#36

Has anyone else tried Methylprednisolone?

1 Like