Take the injections
Typical, none of us can get in range.
Were you taking any vit d supps prior to this test??
Oscar, you’re in England right? Do you get sun? Have you tried the solarium? You need to ask them for full spectrum bulbs, or the ones that are most balanced like the sun. It’s usually only the high end beds that have this and they are the ones that don’t leave you with an orange color. Then start small, only a few minutes at a time, and build up. Do this for a month or two then retest. Much better than injections IMHO…
http://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(05)63489-1/abstract
Regulation of Androgen and Vitamin D Receptors by 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 in Human Prostate Epithelial and Stromal Cells
EDDY S. LEMAN, FERNANDO DeMIGUEL, ALLEN C. GAO, ROBERT H. GETZENBERG
Accepted 17 January 2003.
ABSTRACT
Purpose
The mechanisms of the interaction between 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (1,25 D) and androgens, and their respective receptors in their action on the prostate are not completely understood. We examined the interplay of 1,25 D and androgens on the epithelial and stromal cells of the prostate.
Materials and Methods
The human neonatal prostatic epithelial cell line 267B-1 (BRFF, Inc., Ijamsville, Maryland) and primary cultures of human prostate stromal cells were treated with medium containing 5 or 10 μM 1,25 D or ethanol (control) in the presence or absence of 10 nM dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (Sigma Chemical Co., St. Louis, Missouri). Protein levels of androgen receptor (AR) and vitamin D receptor (VDR) were determined by immunoblot analysis of whole cell extracts. Electrophoresis mobility shift assays were used to determine AR and VDR DNA binding activities.
Results
The VDR protein level of 267B-1 cells was increased in the presence of 1,25 D (with the maximum effects seen at 24 hours) regardless of the presence or absence of DHT. In addition, exogenous DHT increased the AR and VDR DNA binding activities of 267B-1 and stromal cells in the presence of 1,25 D.
Conclusions
ARs in the normal prostate are regulated by androgens, whereas VDRs in the normal prostate can be regulated by 1,25 D as well as by other androgens such as testosterone. This finding further supports the concept that 1,25 D as a steroid hormone, in addition to other androgens such as DHT, may have a role in the growth and differentiation of normal prostate.
Is there a way to test the precursor (25-hydroxyvitamin D) of 1,25 Hydroxyvitamin D?
If that precursor is in range, then Parathyroid Hormone could be affected. From wikipedia:
“Calcitriol is produced in the cells of the proximal tubule of the nephron in the kidneys by the action of 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 1-alpha-hydroxylase, a mitochondrial oxygenase and an enzyme which catalyzes the hydroxylation of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol (calcifediol). The activity of the enzyme is stimulated by PTH. The reaction is an important control point in Ca2+ homeostasis.[2]
The production of calcitriol is also increased by prolactin, a hormone which stimulates lactogenesis (the formation of breast milk), a process which requires large amounts of calcium. It is decreased by high levels of serum phosphate and by an increase in the production of the hormone FGF-23 by osteocyte cells in bone.[citation needed]”
If not, we could work backward in this chain until we find a normalized hormone. Then we would know where the break in the chain is at least.
Also, does anyone know which enzyme they are talking about? “an enzyme which catalyzes the hydroxylation of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol (calcifediol)”
A 14 member expert committee convened by the Institute for Medicine to examine evidence on vitamin D has just reported. It’s the biggest, most comprehensive statement on the evidence on vitamin D for years.
The idea that many people need vitamin D supps - i.e that many of us are “deficient” in vitamin D - has gained traction across the last decade.
But the committee concludes that there is no good evidence that vitamin D supplements do any good in the vast majority of cases.
Here is the really important part for PFS people. The committee note that many laboratories have started to set the minimum end of the normal range for vitamin D at 30ng/ml. But by that standard, 80% of healthy people are deficient in vitamin D. Most healthy people have a vitamin D level between 20ng/ml and 30ng/ml. Crucially, there is no evidence that a level of vitamin D any higher than this is of any benefit for bone health, or anything else. People with a vitamin D level of 60ng/ml fracture bones, die of heart attacks, etc, just as often as people with a vitamin D level of 25ng/ml.
I think this conclusively puts to an end the idea that there is a special relationship between PFS and low vitamin D. Most of you guys started with vit D levels between 20ng/ml and 30ng/ml: that is completely normal when set against most other healthy, non-PFS people. You don’t have low vitamin D.
Read more here: nytimes.com/2010/11/30/health/30vitamin.html.
Yes, I saw that today.
But, if there was absolutely NO connection between PFS and low Vite D scores then why is everyone at the same level - Just low out of range? You would think the results would lie on a bell curve - few very high, a few very low and alot in the middle. Thats not what we are seeing. We almost all have identical levels.
The study is food for thought, but I wouldnt put the vite D connection to bed just yet…
martinM, at the moment I get almost no sunlight, so sunbeds are a good idea and I will do as you suggest. Boston332, I was not supplementing before the test, I wanted to see if it would come up low - and it did. I think the fact that many members here, even in hot countries, have low VitD points to a common symptom. Prehaps the best way to tell if we have problems is with a Bone Mineral Density Test en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_energy_X-ray_absorptiometry
Why is this? Lack of absorbtion, liver problem, receptor downregulation? If receptors where not working surely this would mean more VitD in the blood as it is not being used? Unless the body ‘knows’ it has a receptor problem so produces less? I am also now considering that some of my visual problems are related to a deficiency in Vitamin A.
Oscar i was low on e and k also. Another member that i have talked to about this was low on fat soluable vitamins as well. This is not isolated to vitamin d.
Hi Boston332
I see where you’re coming from, but I think that your argument only holds if you accept the ranges that the laboratories are presenting people with, i.e something like around 30ng/ml to 100ng/ml. Given this range, it does appear that all PFS guys are reporting v similar, just under range levels.
But the key point made in the recent report is that these ranges are way off. In fact, few people have a vitamin D level above 30ng/ml. The scientist leading the report states that most people have to take supplements to get above that level.
It sounds as though the true normal range for vitamin D is pretty tight when measured in ng/ml. That is, it’s something like 15ng/ml to 32ng/ml. Given that range, we see a pretty even spread of results across the PFS guys who have had vit D tested before they started supplementation. Results ranged across the low 20s to the high 20s, with the odd one more or less than this, which is what you’d expect.
The idea that there is a special relationship between PFS and vitamin D made sense, given the relationship between the androgen receptor and the vit D receptor, etc. I was all in for it. But it seems to me, pretty conclusively, that it turns out that the lab ranges are way off, and that guys here are presenting with completely normal vit D levels of the kind you’d find in a group of healthy young men.
This seems to be the case. Have a look at the link below, in particular where the Vit D levels of Hawaiian surfers were analysed. The modal Vit D level was 20 or 30 ng/ml.
Further on in the link, there is an assessment of mortality associated with Vitamin D levels. Too little or too much is linked with increased mortality.
courses.washington.edu/bonephys/opvitD.html
I guess the ideal is to supplement with as few a pure vitamins as possible. In my case, I have noticed a significant improvement with Vit B12 in terms of energy and mood, but I am hoping to wean off B12 when I have made a full recovery. I stopped taking Vitamin D a few weeks ago.
I take many natural suppplements in addition to hormonal agents (which, in sensible replacement doses, can be life optimising). I take Maca, bee pollen, turmeric, fish oils, colostrum, and 2 litres of vegetable juice a day (I juice myself) and feel great. In addition; lots of exercise, regular jogs on the beach, fresh air, surfing etc etc… I think nature is our best healer.
Not too keen on pure vitamins…
JN
Vit D results from 11/19.
Vitamin D 39.1 (32-100)
and i was taking 6000 i/u per day leading up to the test… going to start again and boost to 10,000 i/u
Vit D- 31.2 (30-100) low
My vit D level was very low for quite some time thanks to the poision. Some guys had improvements with different body functions as a result of supplementing Vit D3, so I decided to try that.
My reading before trying to improve this:
23 (25-80 ng/ml)
After supplementing Vit D3 for 2.5 months 25k
137 (25-80)
Obviously now my level is too high. I have no way of knowing for sure that the Vit D3 is the only reason my level rose, as I have been on HC for 8 weeks almost the entire time I was supplementing Vit D3. I do feel much more solid and more felxible. So at least we know we can get this number back up, unlike many other proteins and hormones.
Even though it’s a bit off topic , but my doctor told me that I shouldn’t take more than 1,000 ul of Vitamin D daily because it is a hormone which stores in the kidney and when you take to much it’s not healthy … So what should I do ? with a value of 6 ? (Vitamin D 25 (OH): 6.0 ug/l 20-58) I reduced my intake of 2,000.
You’re doctor is reflecting what many here believe to be outdated knowledge on Vitamin D. The body produces much more than 1,000 IUs when exposed to 30 minutes of sunlight. Do some research online and on other threads in this forum.
Hope88,
Doctors have a lot of opinions about these things and they are not always right. Many think Propecia is safe, shouldn’t that tell you something.
My advice is to supplement a couple of thousand Vit D3 a day for a month and then have a blood test done. If it is still too low you need to up the dose, until you get the number in a healthy range.
Personally, I felt a big improvement once I had been on Vit D3 for about a month. I felt solid and sturdy, not like a frail old person. Clearly, I don’t need a high dose that I was on before. I have lowered it and will do another blood test and look at it again.
One interesting thing you bring up is the Kidneys. Many things keep pointing back to the kidneys as being part of our issue.
This is a bit off topic but I found it interesting
As you all know, people who have permanent side effects from ssri use have very similar symptoms to us. I participate in forums for ssri victims too because I have found that a lot of the things that they are going through are similar to our own struggles.
Surprisingly they all have screwed up vitamin d levels too. The parallels are astonishing
Read my previous post. There is no connection between PFS and vitamin d. The vitamin d levels being reported here are completely normal when set against vitamin d levels seen in healthy people in the general population.
Scaredmale30,
This is completely inaccurate. If you want to make this kind of statement, you need to back it up with medical data. Post a link to a medical study from a respected website.
The Vit D levels that men on this forum are posting are incredibly unhealthy. Many of our levels don’t even fall within what is accepted in the medical community as healthy ranges for men. They actually fall outside of the range.