Short-term Recovery with Choline, Inositol, Cod liver oil, Phenibut

[hopeless94]

another full recovery at the moment without phenibut. Iam not sure what I did though. I took arginin, citrullinmallate + maca for a while right before sleep with the idea to get a morning wood as I read that increase bloodflow is probaly important. Than I stopped this and went for choline, betaine+Vit-A. I think this was on Mondaynight. Took about 32 hours to have an effect. Iam also taking 5htp+tyrosin+l-dopa but this shoulnt have any effect on sexual sides.

This improvement is as the first one. No problem to get an erection, full sensitivity, strong orgasms etc. But I dont know if its because I stopped the arginin+maca combo because sometimes I got better because I stopped a certain supplement. And the sad thing is that this improvement wont last and sex and maturbation is so much more enjoyable this way.

[slick1]

@hopeless94

am also taking 5htp+tyrosin+l-dopa but this shoulnt have any effect on sexual sides.

Mucuna pruriens is actually androgenic… and it affects libido and testosterone. But its hard to guess what exactly helped you.

[hopeless94]

Yeah so far I think of 3 possibilities:

• intake of choline, betaine, Vit-A, this combo showed the exact same improvement before. It feels different compared to improvements via tribulus or amino acids. Interestingly it does take at least 1-2 days until the improvement is recognisable and it only takes one dose to get an effect which lasts several days.

• maca pruriens, 5-HTP, tyrosine. 5-HTP and tyrosine are unlikely to help.

• actually stoping maca+arginin. Somtimes stopping a herb like tribulus showed improvements aswell.

This improvement is very strong. Sensitivity is total different, I can edge and have this feeling of being alble to delay an orgasm. I could totally live with that.

[slick1]

@hopeless94

Yeah so far I think of 3 possibilities:

• intake of choline, betaine, Vit-A, this combo showed the exact same improvement before. It feels different compared to improvements via tribulus or amino acids. Interestingly it does take at least 1-2 days until the improvement is recognisable and it only takes one dose to get an effect which lasts several days.
• maca pruriens, 5-HTP, tyrosine. 5-HTP and tyrosine are unlikely to help.
• actually stoping maca+arginin. Somtimes stopping a herb like tribulus showed improvements aswell.

This improvement is very strong. Sensitivity is total different, I can edge and have this feeling of being alble to delay an orgasm. I could totally live with that.

Maybe there are some similarities with me. I have been recovered few times. First time I believe it was DHEA + Mucuna and I think tribulus. While I was taking it I have seen improvements already. And after I stopped them, everything got much better. It lasted 6 months with Ok libido and good erection without any herbs.But its hard to differentiate and track what helped exactly.

[orthogs]

@slick1

Mucuna pruriens is actually androgenic

It sounds almost as though it’s a ‘tug of war’ whereby starting the supplement changes the homeostasis and then the body adjusts, and then stopping it causes another shift in the homeostasis. It seems to be those shifts which provide temporary recoveries. Possibly shifting AR densities? At certain times there are favourable ratios between AR density and androgens which then eventually shift to an unfavourable state?

[Dubya_B]

@hopeless, you mentioned 5-HTP and how it shouldn’t have an effect one way or the other, but it does have anti-androgenic properties that aren’t widely known:

Serotonin regulates prostate growth through androgen receptor modulation

Recently I reviewed @Rb26dett’s case after he shared his experience. Considering a demonstrable property of antiandrogenic action amongst substances causing members to experience PFS, I had a look for evidence that 5-HT is capable of a notable downregulatory effect on the AR. The following 2017 study explored this in detail, with strong evidence both in vitro and in vivo: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-15832-5 Serotonin regulates prostate growth through androgen receptor modulatio…

Common Link Among SSRIs, Accutane, Finasteride, and Bicalutamide: EGR1 Induction

Just some food for thought. There is an interesting link among some of the substances discussed on propeciahelp: Serotonin was found to induce 5-alpha reductase type-I expression in steroidogenic glial cells of the brain via a pathway involving EGR1. EGR1 knock-down resulted in the loss of serotonin-induced 5-ar expression. It is also worth noting that 5-ar type-I has been shown to be negatively regulated by androgens in the brain. Could excess synaptic serotonin levels during SSRI treatment ca…

Serotonergic 5-HT2A receptor stimulation induces steroid 5alpha-reductase

The study you posted indicates that 5-alpha reductase type-1 mRNA is increased in glial cells (resident cells in the brain that are related to macrophages) by a pathway that is dependent upon a serotonin receptor acting through the Egr-1 transcription factor. Egr-1 has been shown to be increased as a response to an anti-androgenic effect. 5-ar type 1 has been shown to be negatively regulated by androgens in the brain. So, it stands to reason that it is positively regulated by lack of androgen …

Rb26dett Story with 5-HTP

Welcome to our community. Please fill in the following template as a way of introducing yourself, and helping others to understand your background and situation. Where are you from (country)? Italy How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?) Google What is your current age, height, weight? March 1993 (25), 1,68 meters, 54kg What specific drug did you use (finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, isotret…

[hopeless94]

@Dubya_B

@hopeless, you mentioned 5-HTP and how it shouldn’t have an effect one way or the other, but it does have anti-androgenic properties that aren’t widely known:

Its too complicated. Last week, first week of may, I was taking small doses of tribulus and then stopping. So maybe its about cycling androgenic and anti-androgenic substances. Thats why stopping androgenic substances can improve people, or thats why anti-androgenic substances improve people.

My quess would be that is was betaine-choline-Vit-A since the improvement feels 100% as the first one which made me open this thread in the first place and my written description matches this aswell. Maybe choline and betaine help in the methylating procress and get rid of excessive estrogen.

Its will be very helpful to protocol everything I eat and supplement.

[ncsugrad]

Small doses of Tribulus seemed to have helped me as much as anything, so could be that for sure. I’ve tried betaine and choline but never really got much out of it (if anything)

[hopeless94]

Hae you used Vitamin-A in conjunction?

[hopeless94]

There is another thing. I currently use tpoical tretinoin 0.025% for acne and stopped it since thursday because of a chemical peeling I did. My improvement is still there, but tomorow I wanted to continue treatment with tretinoin

[Lostinaustin]

What doses of the choline betaine and vit a did you use?

[Lostinaustin]

And is betaine the same as betaine hcl?

[MOONCHILD]

Vit-A, is bad stuff for PFS, Vitamine A and all the carotene supplements are 5ari. If you want to confirm what I am saying, try Astaxanthin is a carrotene a form of Vitamin A you will be fixed in less than a week. 100% recovered, I guarantee you that. …Just Kidding
I would not touch food with larges amount of vitamine A, also there are others vitamin like B2 is also a DHT blocker.

Astaxanthin

[Wetaka]

What about the mental and physical sides?

[DHT]

What about lycopene. I was drinking 1.2 kg tomato juice everyday for 13 years ??

[MOONCHILD]

Lycopene it is also a DHT blocker, I would avoid DHT blocker food as much as possible.

[Lostinaustin]

@hopeless94 or @Ozeph I have choline and betaine. Should I get pure vitamin a or cod liver oil and what dosage should I take it at

[Cooper]

Anyone tried this combo so far?

[ncsugrad]

Which combo? Betaine and Choline? I have. Didn’t really notice anything from it, though some people on another forum have had some improvements from it.

[Ozeph]

In a 1.5 liter bottle: Choline Bitartrate 6 gr, Betaine HCL 5 gr, 100 ml lemon juice, natural orange/lemon flavor, fill with water to the rim. Take no more than 150ml once a day, mix with soda water. Delicious.

You can also take only Betaine HCL 600-800mg a day. That’s the one that reduces estrogen. But Choline does lots of other good things so I take it as well. It turns into the neurotransmitter Acetyl-Choline which is excitatoty. So it’s to be taken in the morning or at noon. Choline is Betaine precursor, so by taking both, you end up with more Betaine than you taking as Choline makes some more.