GHB (Gamma Hydroxy Butyrate)

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#141

Thanks Keepup, i’ll look out for this.

Can i just add one comment while we’re on Dr’s…

If yours is old + fat + male, probably worth ditching them for a young + slim + female

Sound rediculous? Not at all.

A fat old man sitting on his chair seeing old ladies all day is about as inspirational as a spoon. If they can’t keep their own body in shape (noting that they have no androgen, prostate, mental or other problems) then how are they going to fix somebody elses, who basically has shit loads of problems that they literally understand nothing about, nor can they be bothered. Also, the very fact that they are male make them much more self centered, selfish and less caring about others. They are more interested in personal gain. The older they are, the less modern knowledge they have and the less able and interested in researching our problem they are.

I’ve had 2 male GPs of this kind since this problem and this is my experience.

Women on the other hand are much more maternal, caring and outwardley thinking. They have emotional attachments to situations and display more sympathy. The younger the better, fresh graduates will be MUCH more opened minded about our problem. They’ll probably research it independantly too. If they are slim, they are more concerned about the health of the human body, may even know of someone that has had health problems and want to optimise theirs. If their in control of their own, they are better placed to be in control, understand and help others. I rate my female GP very highly, she reacts fast to my situation as it changes, is willing to think outside the box and sometimes acts on impetus or gut feel instead of boring (outdated) facts that she has access too. I like this approach, because ultimately, the answer to this problem isn’t recorded anywhere just yet, that’s what Awor is working on with scientists.

My first male GP read off the Propecia leaflet to me and said it was impossible i could have a problem because side effects resolve upon discontinuation of the drug. Thanks, but no thanks, cock.

#142

Hi Chi,
Am in the process of trying to get Xyrem from my Doc in London he is very supportive as he has seen men in the same situation as mine, maybe not as persistent in there demands as me, but you get no where fast in this country. I have an appointment to see him soon and hopefully he will agree to prescribe it to me. I will let you know.

#143

is anyone actively trying to get this in the usa

#144

What the hell are you talking about? i just made a fairly long post about why GHB could be useful for us. The last thing i am doing is ruling it out.

I am saying that it’s unlikely anyone will get Xyrem in the UK because that’s a fact. Do you know how much that drug costs the NHS and the legal stuff they have to go through because of the nature of the drug? trust me, i will be ecstatic if you or Gazza get it but it’s unlikely.

Either way you have taken what i said the completely wrong way. I desperately want at least 1 of us on here to get some GHB soon.

The doctor advice sounds great by the way. I might give a female doctor a go.

#145

I’m going to talk to one of my doctors about GHB/Xyrem. If he perscribes it for me I’ll let you know. Personally, I don’t think it will cure my varient of PFS but I would hope it might give me some improvement in sleep, weight managment, fatigue, depression, etc.

Personally I don’t feel as comfortable talking with a female about my side effects, particularly shrinkage and other sexual sides. I find having those discussions with females, doctor or not, particularly depressing.

@bluecloud- You may want to change your tone a bit with some of us on the forum. Alot of us here are finding it tiresome. At least you’ve refrained from using the annoying emoticons in your last few posts…

#146

Bluecloud, didn’t you say you were recovered with Avodart?

#147

What a world we live in. I can buy heroin on the street anywhere but xyrem is almost impossible to get

#148

A guy that I know personally has recently claimed to have improved substantially after taking some GHB (he is mainly suffering of cognitive problems). It’s too early to say though, if the effect will last or what the long term outcome will be. Nevertheless, I find this news very interesting.

My impression is, that just about everyone who has tried GHB/Xyrem has had an improvement. On the other hand, it seems that not many guys have tried it so far, so it is hard to get a clear picture regarding the subject. I would like your help to jog our collective memory of this forum and to verify this impression of mine.

Is the success rate of GHB/Xyrem really as good as it appears to me or am I seeing this wrong? Can anyone recall a member who has tried GHB/Xyrem and did not have an improvement?

Thanks for your help.

#149

@ Boston332 Regarding talking to a female about these problems, for me PFS meant I had no emotion, so it did not make a difference who i was telling it to. However, I will add that i didn’t verbally communicate everything to her. She actually asked me to put it down in a letter, which I did in great detail. I think she felt more comfortable with this approach, rather than have me tell her about all my symptoms. Also, we have to remember that Dr’s don’t have too much time to see patients, and us PFS guys have so many symptoms it sounds like we’re hypocondriacts and must drone on a bit to them, albeit very serious for us. Putting things in a letter gives them the time to read it, potentially mull it over, also means it’s on file for other Dr’s to see, consider etc. Each time I went to meet her I brought a new letter of update and we started our meeting with her reading my letter; my current condition etc. Then i’d propose course of action and she would advise good idea/bad idea etc., but in every instance she felt comfortable with my approach. She believed me 100% and also knew I was an intelligent guy due to the way i expressed myself in my letters. I’m not sure if this will work for you, but try it out. I also had some speech problems, fumlbing for words etc. + very dry mouth, so the letter meant I didn’t have to say too much.

@ Bluecloud Please calm down. All I am saying is if you don’t try, you don’t get. For the record, I actually don’t think I need to get Xyrem anymore, but I am going to pursue the avenue anyway because my sleep still isn’t 100%.

@ Awor [Chi bows] I am glad to see you taking an interest in this area. Research aside, I think we could be on to something here that has never really been given the attention it deserves. There is definitely a GABA element to PFS - The muscle twitches, the poor sleep, the inability to relax and feel emotion, the GABA dependent pelvic floor dysfunction (connected to prostate). In addition, many of us have reported feeling much better AFTER drinking alot of alcohol. I read quite a bit about how alcohol is a GABAA receptor upregulator in the days AFTER use. I actually had a full blown recovery after a night of heavy drinking once.

#150

@ Awor, sorry I am very lazy, but I think I read of one guy on the forum who actually got some sides from Xyrem and decided to stop the medication. He said it didn’t help him either. I’m sure one of the minions can dig it out for you. That said, the one story and report I think is of most interest is Ithappens. Reason being is he was pretty active on the forum as far as I can tell and seemed to have a pretty bad situation at 1 year off the drug. Sorting his sleep + GABA deficiency problem through Xyrem saw him through a complete U-turn and as far as we are concerend the guy is fully recovered, well atleast it seems that way from his final posts. I believe Paulwalters2006 goes into the potential mechanisms a bit better that Ithappens.

Basically what we need is some GHB for more of us to experiment. Is this something one of your labs could prepare for us if you put a case forward and attempted to explain the mechanisms behind it (whatever they are)? I know it’s a long shot, but it might be worth starting something up on the side of the research.

#151

if you could try to look this up, it would be a huge help. i want to see what happened with this guy. i tried researching this through the forum before… didn’t find anything about this. i’ll try to look again.

#152

Oneday used GHB after getting it via a sleep study but reported no benefits, although he did only use it a few days.
19 also used it and said it didn’t help him.

Popo said GHB helped him with libido and facial hair growth but never seems to get mentioned.
Also, this guy ghbeameup who took fin: groups.google.com/group/alt.baldspot/browse_thread/thread/d241e2f1e665a159/b039e78d127d5811?hl=en&q=#b039e78d127d5811

To my knowledge no one who got severe sexual problems like total libido loss, bad ED and structural changes has improved from it.

#153

I wouldn’t speculate too much about the mechanism of action if I were you. It is likely that an entirely different property of GHB is causing the positive effect that we are seeing, one that ties in very well with the etiology that we are investigating.

#154

No worries mate. Good Luck with the investigations.

Any thoughts on producing GHB with one of your labs? :laughing:

#155

Interesting. I did some research and found out these things that can possibly help us with recovery.

  1. GHB promote short-term memory loss.
  2. You escape reality for a short time.
  3. You defeat depression.
  4. Apparently, GHB can be traced to natural sources. It’s found in the human body and it’s also present in red meat, citrus fruits and beer. Source: facts about ghb

I’m hoping that there will be a clinical study about this.

#156

At the very least, as we learn more about the problem, we are narrowing down treatment options.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19427877

At ~1:50, I think the narrator explains a big part of the PFS puzzle.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj_6DcUTRnM&list=FLhkwZLMgSMGTLO2RnoSLowQ&feature=mh_lolz[/youtube]

#157

“Taking into account the multiple physiological and functional roles attributed to the modification of histone acetylation and its consequences at the level of gene expression, we propose that part of the therapeutic or toxic effects of high concentrations of GHB in the brain after therapeutic administration of the drug could be partly due to GHB-induced epigenetic factors.”

This doesn’t necessarily sound good. Also, what makes people think that (if there is epigenetic changes) that taking GHB will go and specifically reverse the epigenetic changes caused by Propecia? GHB may inhibit HDAC activity (or whatever) but how do you know that it will reverse something that is already altered. In other words, it may inhibit acetylation/methylation/etc. but how do we know it will reverse it?

Maybe GHB would have been good to take while taking propecia so that the epigenetic changes do not actually occur. But now that they’ve occurred, I find it hard to imagine that GHB will go specifically reverse our problem.

#158

Yup, I think so too :slight_smile:

Thanks for this beautiful contribution to the site. That is one of the nicest videos I saw on the subject. It’s great for people to see what this stuff actually looks like in order to be able to better picture that we are talking about. Once one understands what is going on inside the cell, it becomes clear that there are much more interesting and relevant things out there than prostates, thyroids, livers and various other organs. My guess would be, that probably even only 1 out 10 non-research doctors could correctly explain terms such as methylation, acetylation, HDAC’s, etc (and their relevance to cell signaling processes). This lack of knowledge is one reason why there still is, in some cases, much focus on organs and hormones instead of considering what might be going on at the molecular level.

Let me just complete your contribution with this quote (posted many times before on this site):

medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877%2809%2900291-6/abstract

Great stuff!

#159

Isn’t this information that pharmaceutical companies would want to bury? If people knew that pharmaceutical drugs caused persistent DNA changes, they would think twice about taking drugs.

#160

What about people who crashed on the drug and never got better (there is a few of us). How does reducing androgens help us, when DHT returning didn’t cause the problem?