2 things I wanted to add to help you with your strategy. (you may already know these).
Klonopin builds up in your body fat over time. So the taper process has to be really long. I think some MD told me the half life for most of Klonopin is like 3-5 days. I think your adjustments to your done will have to be adjusted more slowly to see actual results on dosing. I’m not a Dr. but I think what I’m telling you is basically correct.
I use Phenibut and have done extensive research on it to make sure I use it safely. I started at 250mg to try it and it worked amazingly well. You have to be EXTREMELY careful with how often you use the stuff. I have read that if you use it twice in 1 week that you need to take at least a week off before using it again. The highest dose I have used is 500mg. I try to space my uses 5-7 days apart. I cant say it improved any symptoms but you certainly feel very well rested after taking it. Thats a guranteed 10/10 sleep for you. Good luck and be safe.
Thanks for the cues Shellnyce.
I’ll keep that in mind next time I try to stop but I’m not trying to stop Clonazepam anymore. Just try to get back to what’s normal to me and try different anxiolytic herbs and see if some can be matched with Clonazepam without adverse effects. Then maybe I will reduce slowly. I don’t have much body fat where Clonazepam (or Estrogen for that matter) can hide, Anywhere I pinch my skin, it’s 1/4 inch thick.
I’ve read about Phenibut. I know it’s not and every day thing, but a 10/10 once a week is fine. it’s like a holiday! I’ll read more about it before taking it.
I wonder why the supplement says take 1-2 capsules everyday: Maybe it’s a different variation of Phenibut. Can you tell ?
Day 115 of Amino acid experiment. I will stop counting Sulforaphane unless I get distinct effect from it. Until then, I will use it along with broccoli extract and raw broccoli and see what happens.
Sleep was 6/10 yesterday. Getting better and enough for the day.
I had anxiety yesterday afternoon. I tried eating oatmeal when taking amino acids. Apparently, the less protein you eat when taking aminos, the more of the aminos passes through the brain barrier. But I get anxiety when I eat too much carbs. So I’ll take the aminos on an empty stomach and it will do the same.
Aside from that, I’ll just try Taurine 1000 mg once before lunch and that should do it (to keep me mellow)
I was pretty sure you were well informed. I felt like when I wanted info on trialing phenibut, there was very little useful info. What worked for me was 250 grams an hour before bed. Start low and work your way up. Cheers. Keep up the great thread!
Day 116 of Amino Acid experiment. Sleep at 6/10 again. I sleep a few hours, then I’m fully awake and drowse in and off a very light sleep with very awake moments and surface dreams for the rest of the night.
Yesterday I tried Taurine and GABA in the afternoon and all I got was anxiety late afternoon and evening. So today, It’s back to regular regimen with no particular addition except Sulforaphane and extra Tyrosine to counter balance the extra use of it. Serotonin being lower, as well as Dopamine shows me Tyrosine is being used up. So I decided to take 5-HTP and L-Dopa on an empty stomach without food proteins competing with the amino supplements to see which one going to cross the brain barrier. It works.
Because I have high hopes for Sulforaphane and because I heard it takes some time to have effects, I’m going to give it a 30 days trial. After that, If I don’t see any improvement in ALLO, I will most likely taper off. I had anice balance before I tried Sulforaphane and was having nights between 7.5 to 9/10. I can live with that.
My remaining options are to wait for a proper drug that increase either 3a-HSD or GABA. Currently, GABA remains an elusive neurotransmitter with regards to increasing its presence. It’s not as straight forward as Serotonin, Dopamin, Nor-ephedrine, Acetyl-Choline or others. Maybe it’s because it’s much at the center of it all. GABA has an effect on our will to live and reproduce. That’s survival and reproduction, our two only biological and instinctive objectives. Gaba disability does more than anxiety and insomnia.
I’m interested in trying Ashwagandha in the day time or night time. It’s a nootropic, adaptogen herb that mimics GABA, increase Dopamine, decrease Cortisol and support thyroid, adrenal and sexual glands. It’s got many benefits and an adaptogen for neurotransmitters sounds just like the right thing.
Day 117 of Amino Acid experiment. Same again. Sleep at 6/10. I sleep a few hours, then I’m fully awake and drowse in and off a very light sleep for the rest of the night. I forgot to take Inusitol, the night beofre took double dose (10 gr.). Same sleep pattern… I’ll continue with 4 gr Inusitol in milk and honey, taken with cheese before sleep. This has worked well in the past. I’ll also slightly increase the antihistamine from 6 mg to 8 mg. The sedative dose is 80 mg to 120 mg so I’m still far from it.
I’m taking the same basic regimen, as described in Ozeph Regimen and Supplement, although yesterday I ate in restaurants all day and had normal food. It didn’t seam to change anything. That’s a plus if you ask me.
But since I tried to cut off the benzodiazepine, I can’t seem to get normal sleep. Sulforaphane has changed the way I take aminos too. i need a lot more Tyrosine. Maybe that’s why my good sleep hasn’t returned.
I’ll try 4 gr Inusitol if I wake up again (or most likely when) tonight.
Day 118 of amino acid experiment. Sleep 9/10 I think I remember slightly waking up somewhere in the middle but went back to sleep straight away. I barely woke up a few times when I turned around and back to sleep again. I don’t write 10/10 because. That’s the ideal sleep, when you go to sleep fast, never wake up, and then fully wake up, well rested 8 hours later. But I’m not even aiming for that 10/10.
9/10 is good enough and I feel blessed I can have it, even if not all the time.
So here’s what I did: I had Inusitol 7 gr with 1/2 cup of warm milk and honey and 3 pieces of cheese before bed.
Honey and cheese before sleeps seems to be of major help to not wake up full awake after 3 hours. I recommend it to anyone having this sleep pattern. Apparently, a cracker with peanut butter and Jam does the trick also but for a French guy like me, cheese comes to mind first (plus it’s high in Tryptophan) and peanut butter and jam is a weird mix for me (I tried it. I guess it’s an acquired taste). But whatever suits you: you need a small portion of protein, fat and carbs to provide energy for the night, so you don’t have a cortisol / Adrenalin / Nor-Adrenaline spike during the night when low on energy. That’s why we wake up after 3 hours. That and pfs of course.
Also for those interested, lack of Choline is linked to short term memory not transferring to long term memory. Choline Bi-Tartrate will help with that, along with eliminating excess estrogen, excess fat from the liver and regulating the vagus nerve. I think it’s an important supplement.
I didn’t take Taurine, GABA, Phenylalanine during the day. I’m ruling those out of my regimen, they give no results or bad results.
I increased Anti-Histamine (hydroxyzine) to 10 mg and Clonazepam to 4 mg (I’ll try to lower to 3.5 mg, which was the dose I took before trying to taper off)
I changed the timing of the second dose of 5-HTP, L-Dopa and Tyrosine to 30 minutes before lunch and increased Tyrosine. The recommended dose is 1000 mg for 100 mg of 5-HTP. I’m still not there but will increase to 1000 mg next week.
For the moment, I’m back to normal. Normal days. Normal nights. I’ll keep it like that for a while before trying anything funny. Next trial: Schisandra (which is not supposed to be active on GABA but boosts Dopamine and sex drive), Bacopa and Ashwagandha, (both of which are adaptogen that balances neurotransmitters where needed) and eventually Kava Kava and Passion flowers which acts directly on GABA but interact with Clonazepam (So I’ll have to stop Clonazepam before trying them, easier said than done)
All changes are updated in Ozeph Regimen and Supplement.
I’m happy I can temporarily crash and get back on my feet on a relatively short period of time.
Update: I don’t know if it’s Sulforaphane or taking the 3 brain aminos before lunch, but I’m definitely relaxed while having energy and focus.
Day 119 Slept not as good. 6.5/10. This is due to stress at work which wasn’t resolved when I went to sleep. I already had anxiety when I took the sleeping pills.
Not much to say. There’ll be some ups and downs…
Day120 Sleep getting worst. 5.5/10. This time, it’s because instead of taking a light snack before sleep, I ate until full and had lots of carbs. I’ll stick to 2 pieces of cheese and 1/2 tsp of honey.
I also started taking Schisandra and Bacopa in the morning. Bacopa first time this morning, and Schisandra first time yesterday morning. Those are not supposed to affect GABA and take a few weeks to kick in but both have anxyolitic effects through the CNS. Maybe Schisandra is the cause of bad sleep, but it’s actually supposed to help insomnia. So I’ll just test it.
I’ll try cheese first and see if it helps. (I’ll also eat more at dinner so I’m not so hungry before sleep)
If the herbs makes me feel worst, I’ll stop.
Update: Weird thing. Unless I get a really bad night of sleep, it doesn’t affect me at all during the day. I’m just as concentrated, motivated, good spirited etc… as usual. No symptoms at all.
Day 121 Sleep was much better.8.5/10.
I did everything I did before, the only changes are I took a larger, fatter dinner and I had only 1 piece of cheese along with a little milk before bed. So carbs before bed, carbs in the afternoon, carbs at dinner, all have failed.
The only carbs that didn’t fail so far was carbs at breakfast and lots of activities to burn after.
So I’m gonna stick to least carbs possible, down to zero, as much as I can.
Day 122 I took a five day holiday on an island with my wife and 3 sons. It’s nice to swim in the sea, very relaxing and all, but I’m off my ketogenic diet and I’m eating shit like liquid vegetable oil and tons of carbs.
As a result, I had a complete zombie night last night, without even 3 hours of deep sleep before zombieing. Sleep was 2.5/10 (because a zombie night is still more “sleep” than a night on cocaine, which would score 0, as it is total wakefullness 100 % of the time and that’s not what I had. At least I drifted into light sleep with half awake dreams)
The weird thing is, after I take my morning pills (and the other supplements throught the day) I have a completely normal day, full of energy and without fatigue, brain fog or anything. 100 % normal, like pre fin.
I think the Orexin supplement helps with this : lactates and pyruvate prevent glucose from blocking the Orexin receptors. That increase the efficiency of the receptors, Orexin being the main wakefullness and circadian rythm regulation neuropeptide (histamin the secondary one which is why I take anti-histamin to sleep). Sometime in the future I will experiment taking more lactates and pyruvate around 7pm. I will either have a “cocaine night” or my circadian rythm will kick in and tell my brain to transform serotonin into melatonin as a normal person would.
So far, my regimen works wonder for having normal days, and works maybe 50% for nights. Zombie sleep is still a common occurance but it’s unusual to have it all night without at least 3 hours of sound sleep.
That really is interesting, @ozeph, that your sleep can be so profoundly affected by your diet.
I wonder if anyone suffering with severe sleep problems can replicate your experience.
I am most interested in the really simple snack before bedtime that you have had good results with since anyone could easily try that without major planning or analysis. I appreciate of course that if it doesn’t help, it would be worth noting all the other factors you have experiemented with.
My sleep isn’t so bad at the moment (compared to how it has been) and I have recently changed my diet. I’ve had too much going on recently to say if this can be credited however.
What have you been doing diet wise?
More fibre, I definitely am not saying that this is what has helped however. It is unlikely to hurt you though.
Fibres change your guts flora, from what I understand.
Day 123 I ate only meat at dinner yesterday and took 2 pills of anti-histamin. I got knock out for good. Sleep 9/10. Is it because of no carbs ? Or the pills only ? Probably both.
Getting up from bed was hard. Gravity was really pulling me back ! Even after taking my wake up pills I stayed grogy for an hour or two. Then I was normal. It seems I can have a little carbs for breakfast as long as I’m active and burn it up after.
Anyway. I wanted a resful night, I got it.
Today I’m eating mostly fat grilled chicken, as that’s what available.
Tonight, I’ll take 1 1/2 pill of anti-histamin. That should do it.
Can’t wait to test Orexin at 6pm to see if it helps with circadian rythm.
I’ll post tomorrow.
Day 125 Sleep hasn’t come back. Last two nights, I slept some, then woke up and drifted in and off for the rest of the night. 3.5/10
I’ll have to eliminate things from my regimen. I’ll eliminate all new addiction from the last month. That’s Sulforaphane, St-John’s Worth, Schisandra and Bacopa. Might as well stop Horny Goat weed for 2 weeks, make this week a Pine Pollen week and the next one a Tribulus Terrestris. Maybe i’ll just stop the sex herbs later on. Never had much problem with sex plus I don’t care having high or low sex drive. I just have more or less sex and it’s fine either way.
I need to get my sleep back and I’m doing something wrong. Of course, I had crappy food while I was on the island for 4 days. So I’m also back to full ketogenic.
Update: Horrible day. I’ve been tired, had brain fog and was barely able to work. It reminds me of the last 6 months before stopping fin. I would have insomnia, and be incapacitated 4-5 days a week.
The amino acids were working fine. Even after a bad night, I would have nice, productive days full of energy and in a good mood.
I think it’s the Sulforaphane that messed it up. I noticed amino acids were not working as well with it. And with the extra herbs I’m taking, it’s now hard to find out what does what. So, I’ll reset to what it was before and this time I will not try to get it perfect, but just good enough so I can pass those few years and heal. (that is, I believe I can heal in 4-5 years.)
Day 126 Looks like it works. 9/10 Sleep. What did I change ?
First I went on a strict ketogenic diet, no carbs, high saturated fat and limited protein. So I’m not on a carnivore / ketogenic diet anymore. Just a plain keto one.
I just found what they call fat bombs… Basically 80% saturated fat with something to make it palatable, like cacao powder and stevia.
Second I stopped all herbs that are said to be for the brain. I guess its messed up enough already, don’t need to add more. That includes Sulforaphane. Bye bye !
Third, I was exhausted. ha ha. So I may not sleep as good tonight.
Nonetheless, now that I’ve made the relation between carbs and insomnia, I will try and reduce carbs to the least possible amounts (it is to be noted that the body can transform proteins into carbs.)
I used coconut oil and ghee, plus cacao and Equal sweetener (I know I know)
Day 127 Sleep 9/10. although it did take me time to fall asleep. that should teach me about NOT eating a cocoa fat bomb in the evening. Nothing wrong with the fat, but chocolate can have caffeine like effects.
m surprised how fast I could get back to no symptoms at all. The secret: no carbs and exercise. And stopping stuff like Sulforaphane, St-Johns Worth, Bacopa, Schisandra. Plants with neurological effects are hard to control.
Plus they are plants and I
m anti-vegan ideology. I think we should eat almost only animals (but dont tell all 7 billions of us, there won
t be enough for everyone. I also think we shouldnt be 7 billion, but that`s another topic)
I will update my regimen under Ozeph Regimen and Supplement