A warning about SAMe, methylcobalamin, and high-dose B vitamins

#24

So is a super b complex okay to take? I just started taking one yesterday and I feel like my sleep is more fucked than normal but I’m not sure

#25

Please stop now before you go too far to turn back. This is how it started for me, and no, I haven’t fully recovered yet. Still having trouble getting more than 5 hours sleep most nights. It is better than the 3.5-4 I was getting though. Most of the other parameters, like total ED and horrible derealization have almost resolved.

It’s your call. I didn’t feel right for a couple days after taking a high-dose B complex that one of my ex’s was taking daily without problems. Just be very cautious messing around with this.

#26

with mehtylcobalamin, you are hyperventilating even more ( silencing even more what is already silenced)

Effect of cobalamin derivatives on in vitro enzymatic DNA methylation: methylcobalamin can act as a methyl donor.

The key is all the way around we need Demethlyliation to reactivate the gene that is silenced.
Methylprednisolone are going to do the job a the correct dosage and protocol.

There are compounds like cumming that are demethylating agents but block DHT, we need demethyliation without suppress DHT

#27

Do you think NAD+ is safe? I know it has some b3

#28

Holy shit. Oh, god. Thank you for this. So does this mean one can’t go on a vegan/vegetarian diet + supplement B12 once someone has PFS or PFS-like symptoms? What about hydroxocobalamin?

I have some theracumin at home. Would it be even more potentially disastrous to take one to try to counteract the effects of the methyl b12? I’m going to stop taking any more supplements for along time except for my vitamin D3 + K2 and magnesium.

#29

B3 seem that is safe, but I recommend you to do more research

DON’T Use Niacin to Buffer Excess Methyl Groups

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2018/10/11/dont-use-niacin-buffer-excess-methyl-groups/

12 Symptoms of Overmethylation

Genetics, nutrition, and environment can all lead to both undermethylation and overmethylation. Though overmethylation is less common, it’s still a problem I see in my office fairly regularly. So I suspect that overmethylation is actually a bigger problem than we’ve yet to discover. The end product of methylation is called SAMe, when your body becomes overmethylated there’s too much SAMe floating around.

Symptoms of overmethylation include:

  1. Anxiety
  2. Depression
  3. Panic attacks
  4. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
  5. Behavior disorders
  6. Sleep disorders
  7. Restless
  8. Histamine intolerance
  9. Sensitive to environmental toxins
  10. Highly creative
  11. High energy
  12. Schizophrenia

All this explain me why anonymus is recovered when he was given 1000 mg of Methylprednisolone for 5 days. demethyliation reactivate the silenced genes that keep us with all this crappy side effects.
in my opinion it is the cure.
Methylprednisolone is a DNMT1 inhibitor.
DNMT1 inhibitors are global demethyliators.

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Warning about *dark* chocolate/cocoa/cacao (or foods containing high amounts of 5ar inhibiting flavonols)!
#30

Wow, I am so sorry to hear that. How long did you take the B12 for before you started getting symptoms? I’m definitely going to stop now.

#31

That’s the thing, I’m not really certain because I wasn’t paying attention to my sleep patterns. It just crept up on me and one day I realized I had only slept a max of 4 hrs per night for the previous 5 days, but I think it was around 2 weeks into the B12 and I had been taking SAM-e for a month at that time. It could have been the combination that made it so intense.

There shouldn’t be any problems with taking supplemental B12 as part of a diet plan if you stay within the recommended daily allotments. A lot of these supplements provide ten-fold or more of the US-RDA.

I think the methylcobalamin I was taking was %16,000 of the US-RDA of B12.

#32

So according to your video, glycine helps to soak up excess methyl groups? Has any had success with supplementing glycine?

#33

Dr. Fitzgerald:But we know without question that hypermethylation of the promoter regions of DNA is associated with shutting down gene promotion or expression. When the promoter region is hypermethylated, then that particular gene can’t express, and that’s been shown to occur in many different disease states.

we’ve been fortifying grains for a long time now, so we have more folic acid data than others, but it absolutely increases this potential for hypermethylation. So, higher dose foliate, folic acid exposure, leads to this hypermethylation state and it shuts down. It’s literally shutting down this gene expression in these genes, our tumor suppressor genes, for one, so our ability to fight cancer is inhibited,

Dr. Fitzgerald: No, no. They’re not out there, but what’s clear in the research is that SAM-e, so production of CME, that’s the cofactor for DNA and methyl transferase enzymes, so anything that’s pushing methylation in any capacity. If you’re using those natural or bioidentical methyl donors, you’re going to be increasing CME production, you’re going to be pushing methylation reactions forward.

Guys in my personal opinion:
This is what PSF is hypermethylation in the SRD5A2 pathway.

https://chriskresser.com/methylation-are-we-supplementing-too-much-with-dr-kara-fitzgerald/

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#34

Are there any reliable tests to show if we under or over methylate? Thanks

#35

If you use search terms “methlyation blood panel”, there are a multitude of different companies offering tests for methylation status, although I’m not sure if these tests carry any validity.

#36

Has anyone else tried Methylprednisolone?

#37

I’d try it but I doubt any doctors would prescribe it to me.

Maybe we should contact the PFS foundation regarding this?

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#38

…Jumping the gun here and in true inveterate excitement, could we reasonably experiment with large doses of “available” DNMT1 inhibitors?

Found some here if so: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.01144/full

And we did have a topic on this from way back, but I didn’t try it: Possible traeatment - Looking for a cure for PFS - most of the “goodies” can be had from ebay (except the epilepsy meds.)

How does it sound? I’m not yet convinced I’ll start taking all these, not suggesting anyone does yet either!

EDIT - also upon reading that, this section stood out:
" The other is the tangling of the DNA around proteins (called histones): if the DNA is wrapped on itself, the molecular machines that should read the instruction contained in the DNA, cannot bind the DNA because there isn’t sufficient space. The ability of a histone to compact a DNA molecules (and thus repress gene expression) depends on the presence of particular molecules bound to the histone. The main one is the acetate group: if it binds to histone, forces him to expand and so molecular machines can come in and gene expression is activated. The acetyl groups are linked to histone by HAT and detached from it by HDAC. Also histones can be methylated in some particular positions, and this has mixed effects on gene expression."

I recall (regarding my current sulforaphane fetish) NYScientist’s recovery with it, which is a HDAC inhibitor.

Is any of this sensible or am I just a brainfogged individual and it’s actuallynothing useful?

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#39

…Aaand it looks like Awor already tried this and the theory did the rounds: Reversing silenced AR signal with demethylating agents - A promising treatment option?

In the end it didn’t sort him.

#40

Sup dude. I am from the pssd forum. I have exactly the same experience with a week of betaine hcl (a methyl donor). I literally can not sleep, horrible derealisation, the little libido i had has left. The sleep is killing me. How are u now in these aspects? How much have u recovered from this? I hope its good news because it close to unbearable.

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#41

Hello. I am responding here, rather than privately to the PM you sent.

This sucks. I feel for you. If you are going through what I did, then it was as bad as the initial crash, in a different way.

The good news, I am very much improved in nearly every aspect. 6 hours of sleep per night is now attainable, with only 1-2 brief interruptions, and I don’t feel amped-up or strung out during the day any longer. Derealization is gone. Frequent urination, gone. Libido and ED are back to where they were before taking the SAMe and Me-B12.

The bad news, it took 4 months to get over the worst of it and my sleep is still disturbed somewhat 8 months later.

No matter how bad this becomes, tough it out. Just be prepared for a terrible few months as a worst-case scenario.

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#42

Yes dude i already was bordeline suicidal, but this has made me contact a suicide help foundation. Like u, I feel constantly wired. I was already looking for ways to demethylate myself, but this experience has convinced me we have a big problem in our genes. 4 months is a very long time. I hope i get through.

#43

Btw, did u do anything to reverse this? Or did you just let time do its job? How much did u sleep before this? I finally had my insomnia in control through keto, and now this happened. I already had an appointment at a clinic specialized in methylation and diet, maybe they can help reverse things a bit. The betaine was an accident, didnt know it was a methyl donor. U are right btw it feels like a crash.